Breaking Sadie From Lying On Point

Sadie on the bench.

Sadie on the bench.

Sadie is not stressed.

Sadie is not stressed.

Most of time the chain is slack.

Most of time the chain is slack.

A friend has a young English setter that sometimes lies down on point. I’m not a pro trainer but I wanted to see if I could break her of this habit. Her name is Sadie and her owner said she finds a lot of birds but only lies down some of the time. When he brought her over we worked her on pigeons and the only time she tried to lie down was when the owner went in to flush close to her. When he circled around to come in to her front she stood tall.

I’m not using the owners name because, in my opinion, this problem is caused by something that has been done to her. One thing that could cause this is to yell, “whoa” over and over when the dog is on point. Especially, when the dog hasn’t been whoa broke and Sadie hasn’t been. Something else may have caused this but it’s a sign of stress.

When my dogs go on point I don’t say anything unless they try to move. If the dog tries to move and I say “whoa” one time and he tries to move again he is disobeying a command. He needs to go back to yard training. To tell a dog that is on point to “whoa” is like telling a dog standing on your tail gate to “up”. A dog on point has all of it’s concentration on the bird it’s pointing. If you say anything to him it breaks his concentration.

The first morning I heeled her to my retrieving bench and had her jump onto it. I hooked her collar to the cable that runs the length of the bench. I turned my back for just a moment and she came off the bench. Getting back on she kicked a box that I had my retrieving dummies in off the bench. I had a hot dog that I had cut in about 20 pieces. I walked her up and down the bench but she wouldn’t eat any of the hot dog.



I didn’t let her sit or lie down. I stopped and petted her but if she tried to sit I would run my hand under her belly and lift her back up. After a little while I would see her butt start to drop but then she would stand back up. I spent about 10 minutes walking her and petting her then took her back to the kennel.

The next morning I put an e-collar around her neck and one around her flanks. I didn’t turn them on. I wanted her to get used to wearing them. I heeled her to the retrieving bench and she tried to jump on. I hooked both e-collars to the cable on the bench. Now she can’t sit even if she wants to. I walked her back and forth on the bench. When I stopped I gave her a piece of hot dog. Today she ate the hot dog. Most of the time there was slack in the flank collar. Sadie is really smart. She’s figured out that she can’t sit on the retrieving bench. I put her on the ground.

I have some quail in a flight pen. I walked her close to the pen and she pointed when she got the smell. I walked beside her and she tried to lie down. I picked her up and petted her. She stayed up only going down a little in front. I walked to her other side and she didn’t go down. I petted her on the other side. After a couple of minutes I heeled her to the kennel.

The next morning I put the e-collars on her neck and flanks and heeled her to the retrieving bench. With just a little help she jumped onto it. I hooked both e-collars to the cable that runs the length of the bench. I walked her up and down the bench feeding her the cut up hot dog when ever we stopped. She didn’t even try to sit. After about 5 minutes I put her on the ground.



I heeled her to the quail pen and she went on point. I walked around her and she tried to lie down. I picked her up and petted her telling her what a good girl she is. She tried to lie down a couple of times and once when she went down I led her away then brought her back. She pointed again and let me walk close and pet her. I started to walk around her and she started back down. I picked her back up and petted her then led her away.

I have an elevated 2×6 whoa board with a chain that drops down from a cable. I stood her on my whoa board, hooked her to the chain and walked away. She came off. The drop chain just lets her back feet touch the ground. I helped her back on and petted her. I walked away and she came off the board. I helped her back on then walked beside her. I petted her telling her what a good girl she is. I walked away and she came off again. I helped her back on and walked away. I had a trailer close and went to it and sat down.

After a couple of minutes I went to her and walked circles around her. I went real close on both sides and out front then to the rear. She didn’t move. I went back to the trailer and sat for a few minutes. When I first put her on the board her tail was clamped down but after a while her tail was coming up. I went to her and walked circles around her. I went as close as possible to her sides. She didn’t move. I put her on the ground and heeled her back to the kennel.

Sadie is a really smart dog and in just 3 mornings I have seen a change. I always let all of my dogs out into a big pen while I clean the kennels. When I come to Sadie’s gate she lies down so I go to the next dog and don’t let her out. After each dog I go back to her gate and she lies down. After letting all of the dogs out I would clean a kennel and then go to her gate. Finally, after letting 3 dogs out and cleaning 3 kennels after going to her gate she was running toward the back when I got to her kennel. I opened the gate and she came out. The next 2 days I went through about the same thing. Today when I went to her gate she was standing up. I let her out.



She has to understand that she will get no attention when she is lying down. The only time anything good happens she is standing up. I am enjoying working with her and if I don’t break her from lying on point he still has a dog that finds a lot of birds. A lot of people would be happy with a dog that finds a lot of birds no matter what they look like.

Her tail is clamped down

Her tail is clamped down

Tail still clamped down.

Tail still clamped down.

Finally the tail comes up a little.

Finally the tail comes up a little.



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Raising Puppies

 It's July 8 in Missouri and these pups are on the heat pad

It’s July 8 in Missouri and these pups are on the heat pad

These puppies are on the heating pad when they are only hours old.

These puppies are on the heating pad when they are only hours old.

The pups get off the pad when they get warm.

The pups get off the pad when they get warm.

I’m far from an expert on raising puppies but I wanted to share some of the things I do with mine. I have a whelping box inside a shed that is air conditioned. There is a large pen outside that the mother can use by going through a dog door. I move her to the shed several days before she is due. My vet said there are as many pups born at 60 days as there are at 63.

I check the female often but usually they start breathing really hard a few hours before the pups start coming. Even in the summer, I plug a heat pad in for the pups. According to what I’ve read if a puppy loses 1 degree of temperature the mother will kick that pup out. In my opinion, the heating pad will help keep the puppies temperature up. I don’t know if the mothers put the pups on the pad or they go to it on their on but even if it’s 75 degrees in the shed, the puppies will be on the heat pad, in their first 2 or 3 weeks.

I get as many people as I can to come by and pet the puppies. From day one the pups are handled several times a day. If I have a litter of pups and you come by my house you have to go pet puppies. At 2 or 3 days old, either I remove the dew claws or have the vet remove them.

I weigh the pups each week to make sure that they are all growing at the same rate and I need to know their weight to worm them. I worm at 3, 4 and 6 weeks. I worm the mother and the pups.

The pups open their eyes about 10 days old but they can’t hear until they are about 3 weeks old. At 3 weeks old I start feeding the puppies. If I have a pup that is smaller than the others I let it eat first then put the others in with it. When I start feeding the pups I play a gun conditioning CD from Masters Voice. I feed the puppies twice a day so they hear this CD twice a day, starting a 3 weeks old until they go home with their new owners. Also, at 3 weeks old I put collars on the pups with about 18 inches of small rope dragging. They drag each other around with these ropes and it helps teach them to lead.




My vet gave me a recipe for a mix that is close to mothers milk. The recipe is as follows:
* One can evaporated milk
* One can of water
* One table spoon of plain yogurt
* One egg yolk (egg whites are supposed to be bad for dogs)
* One tablespoon Karo syrup or honey

At about 4 weeks old I start mixing dry dog food in with the milk. I let the dry food soak in the milk for 15 minutes or so then heat it to luke warm. I have the milk in a pint jar and I pick the feed pan up and drop it, then pour the milk in. The pups learn to come to the sound of the pan hitting the floor. I also throw pans and buckets into the shed. I want the pups to know that when I’m around there will be noise.

According to the weather I start taking them outside to play. I raise pigeons and once the pups get used to being outside I put a young pigeon, that can’t fly, down in front of them. When they get too aggressive for the young pigeons I start letting pigeons fly from my hand. Until the pups get used to this I make sure that the pigeons wings don’t hit the ground as they fly away. If the wings don’t hit the ground they make very little noise flying away.

I also, take a handful of dry dog food and throw it in the grass. As the pups come into the area where it is I tell them to “look close”. This teaches them to use their nose and the “look close” can be used hunting dead later on, or hunt an area where you think singles may be.

I take the pups on walks and have pigeons in a bird bag. As we walk along the pups will be inspecting every thing then they get tired. When they slow down a little I toss a pigeon out where they can see it. That gets them fired up again.



At about 6 weeks old and after all of the pups are chasing the fly away pigeons I put some pigeons to sleep by putting their head under their wing and straightening their legs out. I put them down on the wing their head is under then cover them with grass. I get the whole litter to go for a walk. The first few times I may have to walk the pups right over the pigeons but it’s not long before they find them from scent. By the time these pups go home with their new owners they are bird crazy.

I like for the owners to leave the puppies until they are at least 8 weeks old and it doesn’t hurt to leave them up to 10 weeks. This gives them an opportunity to learn to be dogs. After 10 weeks old they need to be separated.



This is not the only way to raise pups it’s just my way but I have been fortunate to be able to raise well adjusted puppies that really like people. Today I had calls from two people wanting to buy a pup and they both had bought pups from me in the last 5 or 6 years. They were ready to start another one of my pups. That’s really satisfying.

Teasing the puppies with a pigeon.

Teasing the puppies with a pigeon.

The puppies like pigeons.

The puppies like pigeons.

Puppies with pigeons.

Puppies with pigeons.



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Lucky

Lucky

Lucky

  Lucky backing Dolly

Lucky backing Dolly

Lucky

Lucky

Lucky was born May, 31, 2004. He was a left over pup. At the end of 10 weeks I had 2 pups left. Lucky and a female. In September I got a call from Vince Dye. He worked with my neighbors, Dave and Debbie Hatton. He was looking for a puppy and bought the female, Katie. He really liked Katie and called several times to thank me for selling her to him. We got together to work pups then started hunting together.

I had worked both pups on pigeons and had started whoa breaking them. Both pups were pointing pigeons but Lucky thought after pointing he should do something else. I would walk in and he would circle the release trap and point from the other side. He did this over and over. I would pick him up and put him back in the original spot. I don’t know how many times I put him back but it was a lot. Finally, he figured out all he was supposed to do was stand still after he pointed.

They were 5 months old when quail season opened. I had several dogs and Lucky didn’t get to point the first part of the season then Vince invited me to go with him on some private land he had permission to hunt. He had a short hair female, Roxy, that was a real good bird dog and Katie. Katie had already pointed some wild quail but Lucky just hadn’t been in the right place, yet.

Vince had some really good places to hunt and we were in a lot of quail. All of our dogs would back and after several backs Lucky pointed a quail. He liked that even better than honoring. He really started hitting the brush looking for birds. When we killed a bird in front of Lucky or Katie they retrieved to hand.



We were hunting close to a gravel road and Roxy crossed the road and went on point about 5 yards off of the gravel. Katie and Lucky both honored. Vince and I were about 150 yards from the road. I took a series of pictures as we got closer. Before we got close a truck drove down the road between us and the dogs. Not a dog moved. Vince went in front of Roxie and a single quail flushed.

Lucky became a big runner but with the Garmin GPS I knew where he was. He pointed a lot of birds and most of the time he found them quite a ways from me. I knew, if the birds held he would hold. When he was young he had lots of style but as he aged his tail wasn’t as high and if it took me a long time to get there he would sometimes be lying down.

One time I was hunting walk-in in Kansas and his GPS collar quit just a little ways from the truck. He came by me and then he was lost. I made a big circle in the walk-in property calling him as I went. I hadn’t seen him in 30 to 45 minutes and was getting really concerned. I came back close to where I saw him last and he was about 20 yards farther on point. He had a covey of quail in front of him. I may be wrong but I believe that he was on point the whole time.

Each time I have hunted him this season I wondered if it was the last. He still runs good and finds birds but an eleven year old dog that has worked as hard as he has is on borrowed time. He’s still one of the dogs I take to guide with. I know he’s not going to get excited and run through the field flushing all of the birds.



I guided with him 2 days in a row and that was too much. I guided on a Friday morning, for about 3 hours, then came back Saturday afternoon and he made it for about 2 1/2 hours. He pointed a covey of quail and when the hunters shot one he retrieved it then laid down. I thought I could lead him out of the field but he wouldn’t even stand. Roy Branson and I carried him to the truck.

Last Saturday I guided again and it was 75 degrees when I turned Dolly and Lucky loose. They only had to work for about an hour and I had a lot of water with me. We also hunted along a creek with water in it but he was really tired when we finished.

That was my last guiding trip of the season and I wanted him to get as many trips as he could. But he is finally retired. May be semi-retired. That was his last guiding trip although I will still use him for short hunts. Nothing longer than an hour and it will have to be cool. He has been a good one and I’m going to miss having him to use as I have in the past.

Lucky

Lucky

Lucky

Lucky

Lucky pointing a pigeon.

Lucky pointing a pigeon.



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End Of Quail Season Withdrawals

Tur Bo and Dolly both on point.

Tur Bo and Dolly both on point.

Tur Bo in front on point Dolly behind honoring

Tur Bo in front on point Dolly behind honoring

Tur Bo honoring Dolly

Tur Bo honoring Dolly

It’s been too cold to train dogs but I have been getting a pen ready to house some pen reared birds to train with. Most of the quail seasons are closed. Oklahoma season closes Monday. Some states go to the end of February. The end of another quail season always brings a feeling that can only be termed “withdrawal”.

Late in the season, last year, I went hunting near Atchison, Kansas. On the way home I got to thinking about my grandfather, Ben O’Kelly. Grandpa was born in the 1880’s and died in 1960. He had been a blacksmith and was stooped over from bending over the forge and anvil most of his life. I don’t remember him having a blacksmith shop but he had a small farm with a large garden, a milk cow and usually some horses or mules. Grandpa never owned a car nor as far as I knew ever learned to drive.

It was late in the season when I hunted near Atchison and most of the cover was either beat down or had been grazed down by the cattle. I had hunted Luke and Blaze on the first place and although both of them had pointed I never saw a bird. I think the quail had run out and flushed before I got there.

I drove by some walk-in properties that were grazed down to where I didn’t think a quail could make a living. I had two dogs that hadn’t been out of the truck. I was looking for a place when I saw a water way that had quite a bit of cover in it although it only ran about 300 yards into a harvested soy bean field. I turned Tur Bo and Dolly out and we started up the east side of the water way.



The water way was a large triangle with the widest part near the road. We got to the north edge and there was a small water way running to the west into the soy bean field. The dogs ran to the end of it as I watched them. We started back down the west edge of the big water way. Both dogs came in front of me with Tur Bo well ahead of Dolly. About 50 yards in front of me Tur Bo slammed into a point. When Dolly saw him she honored.

Tur Bo was looking to the west so I made a circle to get well out front of him then started back toward him. I saw the quail on the ground, running. When they got close to Tur Bo a large covey flushed. I dropped one with the first barrel but missed with the second. Dolly retrieved my dead bird. The covey flew across the road off the walk-in property although I checked the water way back to the truck.

It doesn’t take a lot to make me happy. Tur Bo had pointed a covey that more or less had held, I killed one bird on the covey rise and Dolly had made a nice retrieve. We had all done our job. Some better than others. I felt good about the trip then I got to thinking about my grandpa. What would he think about someone that had just driven 200 miles round trip, killed one little ole quail and was on his way home happy.




Grandpa never had a whole lot but he was always happy and grateful for what he had. I think he would have thought that I had a pretty good day.

My new dog sculpture.

My new dog sculpture.

Luke

Luke

Luke pointing a single quail.

Luke pointing a single quail.



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