Traveling Pointing Dogs

I keep doing the same old stuff with all of these dogs. Now it’s mainly lots and lots of repetition. One of the things I’ve been doing that I haven’t said much about is getting the dogs to run in front of the 4-wheeler. Boss and Mann were really good about staying in front but the two girls, Sally and Abby, did a lot of stopping and eating grass. When I first started I just rode on to the back and when I got close to them they would run back with me.

Sally pointing a single.

Boss honoring.

Abby on point.

They were getting about half the exercise they needed. And I wanted them to run in front of me. They could be off to the side as long as they stayed in front. The first thing I did was slow the 4-wheeler down. That put them farther in front of me and when they stopped I stopped the 4-wheeler. Sometimes I just called them but occasionally I toned their collar. They came along pretty good after they decided I wasn’t going to go until they did. Then they were like, “Okay, if you’re not going until I do, I guess I will come on”.

Now all of the dogs know that we are going to make two laps around the yard. When we first started, occasionally, one of them, usually Sally or Abby, would try to quit after 1 round. I still occasionally have to stop and wait for Sally or Abby but not always. To get in shape all of the dogs will have to run much farther but we will do that closer to the season opening.

It’s been pretty warm the last few mornings so I have only been throwing 4 or 5 bumpers for Mann and Sally to retrieve. Also, Sally is in heat so I work her after all the other dogs. There can be quite a difference in the temperature from the first dog to the last but the boys might not have their mind on retrieving if I work her first.

Yesterday I worked Abby on the retrieving bench first. She went through everything without me having to touch the e-collar. I put 4 different dowel type bumpers about half way down the bench and waved in that direction and said, “fetch”. Abby slowly went after each one and when she picked one up I clapped my hands, loudly and said, “Alright, good girl” with a lot of enthusiasm. She did all 4 bumpers 3 times.

I set her on the ground and had her fetch a dowel from my hand then laid it on the ground and had her pick it up then we heeled a big circle. She never dropped the dowel. I never once touched the e-collar. This is where I have been wanting to get since we started. I don’t like having to use the toe pinch or the e-collar to get compliance. But it’s necessary when you first start.

Mann honoring.

I heeled her back near the kennel where the 4-wheeler was. I got on the 4-wheeler and released her to run. I had to stop a few times and she doesn’t like to go in front of my house. One time my daughter’s car was in the drive way and that seemed to spook her and she has tried to honor my dog statue that is life sized. But that stone dog bothers her too. Anyway she waits until I circle the house then she gets in front of me again. Before the summer is over she and Sally both will be doing really well.

Boss is another story. At times he’s been ahead of Abby on learning to retrieve. But right now he’s behind. Yesterday several times He would go to the dummy and try to take it then leave it lying on the bench. I started off trying not to use the e-collar just as I had on Abby. Sometimes he would retrieve 3 of the 4 dummies but not all 4.

Abby pointing a chukar.

I had the Garmin Sport Pro set on level 3. And he doesn’t show that it bothers him at all. I started by hitting the button on the transmitter and telling him to fetch. He would go slowly to the dummy and take it. Then when he picked it up I let off the button. If he took it then spit it out I held the button down until he grabbed the dummy. I only said, “fetch” one time. Then he would do a couple with no stimulation.

We went through the 4 dummies 3 times and I set him on the ground. I had him pick a dowel dummy off the ground and heeled him a short distance where he spit it out. I held the button down on the e-collar and he didn’t pay any attention. It was on level 3 so I went to level 4. He picked the bumper up and we heeled for a short distance where he spit it out again. He spit that dummy out 4 or 5 times in just a short distance.

He would heel for a little way then quit walking and spit the dummy out. I was getting frustrated with him but I know better than to let it show. Finally, after several tries he walked 35 feet or so and we declared a victory. I heeled him back to the 4-wheeler and let him run for a while. He didn’t hold a grudge. When I sat on my tree stump he crawled into my lap to be petted.

Boss on point, Allie and Abby honoring.

Well, today I worked him right after Mann. He jumped onto the retrieving bench and I walked up one side and down the other petting him several times. I put the 4 dummies about half way down the bench and waved in that direction and said, “fetch”. He slowly went down the bench and got a dummy and as I clapped my hands and said, “alright, here” it kind of startled him but he brought it to me. Out of 12 bumpers I had to use the e-collar maybe twice. Also, I had turned the collar down to level 2.

After he did the 12 dummies I set him on the ground, dreading the next step. I had put the Wonder lead on him before setting him on the ground. I held the dowel in front of his mouth and said, “fetch”. He took it and held until I said, “give”. I set the dummy on the ground and said, “fetch”. He picked it up. For some reason I went to the end of the Wonder lead in front of him, squatted down and said. “here”. He happily brought it straight to me and held until I said, “give”.

One of the things that is hard to get the dog to understand is that you want them to come straight to you. Lab guys want them to sit in their heeling place but I want them to come straight to me and look me in the eye. I petted him for a bit then had him pick the dummy up from the ground and I walked in front holding the end of the Wonder lead. Again he came straight to me, held until I said, “give”. I hope it’s that easy. The next couple of weeks will tell.

Mann on point.

I worked Abby next. As I heeled her to the retrieving bench I took a check cord down. If I can get them to bring the dummy the length of the check cord then they will be well started on retrieving. Over the next few weeks we will work on lengthening the distance that they carry the dummy.

Abby is a little chunky but that doesn’t keep her from liking the treats. As I walk both sides of the retrieving bench I feed her a few treats. I put the 4 dummies on the bench, petted her for a few seconds then said, “fetch” as I moved my arm toward the dummies. She went right down, slowly, and picked one up. I clapped my hands and said, “alright, here”. She came right to me and held the dummy until I said, “give”. She retrieved all 4 without me touching the e-collar.

I had her do 4 more retrieves and she did fine. I set her on the ground and said, “whoa”. I held a dummy in front of her and said, “fetch”. She took the dummy. I walked to the end of the Wonder lead and said, “here”. She spit out the dummy and happily came to me. I took her back to the starting place, said, “whoa, then fetch”. She took the dummy and I walked to the end of the Wonder lead and said, “hold” then “here”. She brought the dummy to me and spit it into my hand.

Mann is even fancy standing in his pen.

I whoaed her there, held the dummy in front of her and said “fetch”. I went to the starting point, next to the retrieving bench, said, “hold, here”. Just before she got to me I said, “Hold”. She stood in front of me for a few seconds before I said, “give”. She dropped it in my hand. I thought that was a good spot to quit. I heeled her back to the 4-wheeler and let her run for a while.

In all cases when the dog isn’t doing what I want it to do, it’s because I haven’t used the right approach. This isn’t the first time just trying something a little different paid big rewards. If I tried to only do things one way, me nor the dogs would be very happy.

I’m still working all 4 of the dogs on retrieving. Sally and Mann, I just throw a few Dokken bumpers for but Abby and Boss are being force broke. As slow as I go with the force fetch it can’t be force broke. It’s more like force bending. Because I don’t force break dogs for other people I can go as fast or as slow as I would like. If I was paying someone to force fetch my dogs I would want them to hurry so it wouldn’t cost a great deal. But I don’t get paid so I can go slow.

Sally waiting for me to take the dummy and give her a treat.

Boss pointing a pigeon.

Abby, also not happy, but holding the dowel.

Mann, when he retrieves, was coming to me but at the last moment would turn where his head was pointed away from me. The last blog I thought I had it figured out. I spread my arms out when he came back and the first day he came straight in and looked at me. The next time, with me holding my arms wide, he came in with his head away.

I’m not sure what he thinks he’s doing by coming in with his side to me but I want to fix it. He’s now taking a treat most of the time when he retrieves so I started asking him to come closer. The first few times he came side ways. I kept calling him until he looked at me. Only then did I take the dummy and give him a treat. That seems to be working. You can’t train each dog in exactly the same way as all of the others. With all of the dogs it’s as much being trained as it is training.

After 5 or 6 retrieves, according to the weather, cool it’s more, warm it’s less, I let all of the dogs run for a while as I follow on the 4-wheeler. Mann and Boss go really fast. For Boss I have to be fairly close when we get to my front yard since he isn’t scared of the highway. I have to be near to call him back and across the front then go toward the back. Boss is the only one that seems unafraid of the highway. The others turn as they pass the house.

My neighbor had a large tree that had died right between my pigeon house and dog pens. We cut it down before it fell on the pigeon coop or dog pens and destroyed them. It left a tall stump and I cut the stump to about the right size to sit on and I use it for a loving spot. After I work each dog and let them run for a while I sit on the stump and pet them. Abby and Sally want treats while they are being petted but Mann and Boss just want the attention.

While I sit on the stump I make Sally, Abby and Mann stand right in front of me while they are being petted. Boss thinks he should be in my lap. He jumps on me every time. I run all of the dogs with e-collar and GPS collars so this gives me time to take the GPS collar off and change their e-collar over to a bark collar, so I don’t have to listen to them bark while I train another. After about a minute of petting I say, “okay” and they all head for their kennel.

I force broke Sally about 3 years ago but she never put it together with retrieving dead birds until last year. She got pretty good but should be better this year. When I throw the Dokken bumpers, usually the quail bumper, she does everything perfect or she doesn’t get a treat. Treats for her are a big deal. And she really likes to retrieve now, too. She runs really fast and spins around to get the bumper. When she gets it she is straight back to me and will stand until I say, “give”. After I give her a treat she’s ready to do it again.

The stump I’ve made into a loving spot.

Abby and Sally both don’t run all out, in front of the 4-wheeler, like the boys do. I put them on whoa near the 4-wheeler, get on and start it then say, “okay”. Their break away is good but they dawdle. They both have to stop and eat grass or smell where a rabbit has been or whatever. The last few times I have been keeping them in front of me. When they stop to eat grass I stop the 4-wheeler until they move.

They both act like, “Oh, okay I’ll run if that’s what you want”. Before I would ride on to the back and turn and start back and they would get in front of me. But they were only running half way. Now I wait and they run all of it. They need the exercise.

I try to alternate on which of the young dogs I work first each time. Most of the time I can remember which one was worked first the last time. One week Boss will be a little ahead of Abby and the next week it’s the other way around. This week Abby has been doing a little better than Boss.

Boss, stretched out, pointing a pigeon.

I heeled her down to the retrieving bench. When she jumps onto the bench I walk her back and forth petting her and feeding treats. I use the Garmin Sports Pro e-collar for the force breaking. So far I have only used level 2 and level 3. This transmitter has 10 levels and they show just a little reaction to the level 3. Now I sometimes go back to level 2 when they are doing good with retrieving. Sometimes I skip the e-collar altogether.

I had her retrieve 6 different dummies that were placed part of the way down the bench. Each time, I would have to turn her around on the bench then say, “fetch” and walk down the bench with her. As soon as she picked up the dummy I would hurry back to the start and call her. When she turned and started toward me I would clap my hands and make a big deal out of it. I wanted her to know she was pleasing me.

Abby pointing a pigeon.

After she retrieved the 6 dummies sometimes twice I petted her on the bench and gave more treats. I set her on the ground and told her to whoa. I took the dowel dummy and held it in front of her and said, “fetch”. She took it and I said, “give”. She dropped it and I placed it at her feet on the ground. I said, “fetch”. She was slower but she picked it up. I said, “hold, then heel” and we walked a circle. The first few times she went a short distance and spit the dowel out. As soon as the dowel left her mouth the stimulation came on.

When I placed my hand close to the dowel she would pick it up. The first few times she would spit the dowel out 2 or 3 times. Each time the stimulation came on when the dowel left her mouth. The only thing that kept the stimulation off was having the dowel in her mouth. The last couple of times we have made a large circle without her dropping the dowel.

I let her run and she’s one I have to stop and wait on several times. But she’s starting to run a lot better. After 2 rounds of the yard I sit on the stump and pet her. Actually, I sit on the stump and feed her treats. She loves and expects her treats.

Sally retrieving the Dokken quail.

Boss is next. He doesn’t like the treats like the girls do so he’s more reluctant to get on the bench. I pet him as we walk both sides of the bench. I try to get him to eat a treat and sometimes he will but it’s not a big deal to him.

I do him the same way I do Abby. I start with the dowel. I hold it right in front to start then about half way down then on the bench top. Then I take it about half way down the bench, lay it down, turn him around and say, “fetch”. He moves really slow. One day this week he moved really slow to the dowel and when he picked it up it just barely cleared the bench and he stopped. I just stood and watched. I was a little behind him and I could see if he let it back down on the bench. We both just stood.

After a minute or longer he let it down and the stimulation came on. I didn’t say anything. He picked it back up and cleared the bench about an inch. I made him raise his head and then I called him to me. When he started to me I made a big deal out of it. He seemed proud to give me the dowel. After that he was slow but he retrieved it several times.

I set him on the ground and said, “whoa”. I had him retrieve the dowel from right in front of his mouth, then about half way down then pick it up from the ground. Once he picked it up from the ground I had him walk in a circle. The first circle for him he never spit it out but after that time he started spitting it out. I watched close and as soon as he spit it out the stimulation came on. The last couple of times, he hasn’t spit it out.

Mann honoring Ally.

I let him run for a while. He and Mann make me go about as fast as the 4-wheeler will go. But if I don’t stay close Boss may either go to the highway or go off to the west and be gone for a long time. Seems like just before I sit on my stump to pet him he finds a good mud hole so he can bring me plenty of mud. But that’s a small price to pay for a dog that wants to sit in your lap.

I worked the dogs Monday then it’s rained 3 days in a row. Tuesday and Wednesday the rain was too much to get out but today I got out for a little while between the rains. The dogs need the exercise nearly as much as I do. When the ground is wet it’s hard to not make ruts with the 4-wheeler but if I don’t ride I can’t keep up with the dogs and they go off my property. That wouldn’t be all that bad except in just a few minutes they can be over a mile off my property. Then it becomes a problem.

Mann on point.

Boss pointing a pigeon.

Sally on point.

I worked Sally on retrieving this morning. She will retrieve as long as I will throw the dummy, as long as I give her a treat when she returns. But she knows she has to do it correctly or she doesn’t get a treat. That keeps her honest. She really wants the treat. After 5 or 6 retrieves I let her run while I follow along on the 4-wheeler. When we got back to the kennel I sat on the stump and petted her and fed a few more treats. In just a few minutes she’s was ready to go in her kennel.

Mann was next. The guy that force broke him put a lot of pressure on him. So I’ve tried not to stress him out, on retrieving. Because he was force broke he will retrieve but he doesn’t like it. Although he’s getting better. He was having a hard time knowing where to come to me when he retrieved. He, sometimes, came in sideways to me instead of to my front. And he often stopped a few feet away from me, without dropping the dummy.

This morning when I worked him the first retrieve he came in sideways and stopped a few feet away. I pulled him to me and petted him. Then I decided that I needed to get him to coming directly in to me. I threw the dummy about as far as I could throw and he went after it. I squatted down and when he got close I held my hands apart with my arms spread out. He came straight in to me.

I was surprised. I threw the dummy 4 or 5 more times and spread my arms each time as he came toward me. He delivered the dummy straight in to me each time. Maybe I was the problem instead of him. I will keep on with this until he get’s it ingrained into his routine. I let him run for a bit then sat on the stump and petted him. The temperature was in the upper 60’s with heavy humidity. It wasn’t long before he was ready to go in the kennel.

I heeled Boss to the retrieving bench. After a lot of petting and trying to get him to eat a treat I started the retrieving. I’ve been holding the button on the transmitter down as I pull on the string with a half hitch around his toes for over a week. Today I decided to try with just the e-collar. I held the button down and said, “fetch” as I held a dowel in front of him. He took it just fine. He held the dowel until I said, “give”.

Abby pointing a pigeon.

We went through all 6 dummies. On the last one which was another dowel I said, “heel” and walked down the table. He followed along holding the dummy. I turned and went back to the start and he followed. He dropped it into my hand when I said, “give”. We went through all 6 dummies with him walking on the bench before I took it from him. It wasn’t flawless but for the first time without the string and walking with each one, it was great.

I set him on the ground and heeled him back near the 4-wheeler. I made a couple of passes around the yard with him running all out. After the second pass we quit at the kennels. I sat on the stump and petted him. Boss makes the petting easy. He crawls into my lap as if he’s a little boy. All he wants is petting. After a couple of minutes he was ready to go into his kennel.

I heeled Abby close to the retrieving bench. About 15 yards short of the bench I whoaed her, took the Wonder lead off, stroked her sides and tapped her head as I said, “okay”. She ran and jumped onto the retrieving bench. Abby loves the treats so I usually give her several as I walk her up and down the bench.

Abby really concentrating on this honor.

Since I didn’t need the string around the toes for Boss I tried just the e-collar on Abby. She took the dowel, when I held the button down on the transmitter, but did it really slow. I use the Garmin Sport Pro e-collar for the force breaking. I have been using the level 3 for both dogs. I decided because she’s tougher than Boss I would go to level 4 on her. I pushed the button on the transmitter, on level 4, and Abby just stood gritting her teeth.

I went back to level 3 and told her to fetch and she took the dummy. We ran through all 6 dummies. She was slow but she picked them up. Boss will walk with the dummies in his mouth and it doesn’t bother him. I have to pull Abby but if she is at the other end she is easier to bring back to the start. So I led her to the other end and said, “fetch”. She picked up the dummy but she didn’t want to walk across the other dummies lying on the bench, but she did.

Each time I walked her to the far end of the bench and let her carry the dummy back to the start. She too wasn’t flawless but we got through it. A few days of this and maybe I will be able to have them carry a dummy on the ground.

John, Vince and Abby.

As I’ve said before, I’m going really slow because I can. There is no time constraints on my training. If we don’t get it done next week maybe we will the next week. That’s the neat part about force breaking dogs this time of year. Quail season is 5 months away. That gives me plenty of time to get the job done.

The weather cooperated this week and I was able to work the dogs every day. I’m still throwing a few retrieves for Sally and Mann before I work the young dogs on the force retrieve. Sally likes the treats but Mann is happy to be petted. After a few, usually about 5 retrieves, I whoa them, get on the 4-wheeler, start it and release them to run. We go all the way to the back, turn and come back to the front yard then to the back then to the kennel.

Boss, not happy, but holding the dowel.

Abby, also not happy, but holding the dowel.

Sally racing back with a retrieve. She gets a treat when she does it correctly.

I run all 4 dogs this way when I’m through with their training. When we get to the kennel I sit on a stump that is close and pet the dogs and feed some of them treats. I want each one of them to think they are my favorite.

A friend and I were talking about dogs and how we neither one let them jump from the tail gate to the ground. I, also, don’t let the dogs jump off the retrieving bench. The only place I let them jump from is their dog houses. I can’t keep them from jumping off all day when I’m not there.

My retrieving bench and the tail gate on the truck are higher than their house. When they jump from anything they land on their front legs with a lot of force. For puppies this is especially hard on them since their bones are not fully attached.

Another benefit from always setting them on the ground; years ago I parked on the street in front of a country grocery store as I went in to find something for lunch. I was in the store, probably about 15 minutes. When I came back out one of my dogs was walking around in the back of my truck. The door to his box had come open and he got out.

I put him back in his box with no bad results but if he had of jumped out and ran off I wouldn’t have noticed that he was gone until I got to the next place I wanted to hunt. Then I wouldn’t have known where he got out. But I really believe if he had of been used to jumping down he would have jumped and every thing wouldn’t have been as easy as it was.

Back to the force fetch that I’m doing with Abby and Boss. This week I have started using the e-collar along with the toe hitch. I put the half hitch around their toes as normal but I wrap the string around the transmitter and when I pull the string I push the button on the transmitter. I only use a light stimulation with the e-collar but if they drop the dummy or fail to pick it up I hold the button down, while I pull on the string, until they pick up.

The string around the toes of Boss.

I have six different dummies that I have them pick up from the retrieving bench two times, each session. Working two dogs just reaffirms what I already knew. Each dog is different although they are raised the same and treated exactly the same in each training session.

Abby is tougher and will try me more than Boss does. She will drop a dummy occasionally, knowing that I will pull on the string until the dummy is back in her mouth. When Boss drops a dummy it’s an honest mistake. But I pull on the string and hold the transmitter button down until it’s back in his mouth, too.

Boss pointing a pigeon.

Also, we are starting to walk and hold a dummy at the same time. I first tried to get Abby to walk with the dummy and she didn’t want to move her legs. I could drag her and she would finally take a tentative step or two. She didn’t try to drop the dummy. Her mind was on me asking her to move. I had her about half way down the bench when I asked her to move. I turned her around and she was more willing to go back toward the starting place.

Boss was another story. Even the first time I asked him to move he came right with me and almost looked proud to be walking with the retrieving dummy. Any time I change something or introduce something new I start with the dowel. It’s the first thing I had them hold, so it’s familiar to them.

Abby pointing a pigeon.

I could, probably, go faster on the force retrieve but I don’t want to put a lot of stress on them. We work on something until they really understand it before going on to the next. With enough repetition you can teach almost anything.