Traveling Pointing Dogs

It’s the time of year that it rains every day, or at least it seems that way. Yesterday my friend brought his young English setter over to work some more on the backing dog and to do a little on pointing the pigeons in release traps. We did one bird in front of the backing dog and she nailed it so we put birds out for her to point. When she first came over, she would point for a little while, then take a step or more.

Boss, not happy, but holding the dowel.

The string around the toes of Boss.

Abby, also not happy, but holding the dowel.

Millie pointed the first from a long distance. She was chewing the scent as she pointed. Millie has had quite a few pigeons hidden for her. Lew, her owner started in front and she took a step. I flushed the pigeon and she chased.

On the next pigeon, the way the wind was when she hit the scent cone, we were in front of her, near the pigeon. Lew went to her side to take pictures and when he was through I stepped in front of her kicking the grass. She didn’t move until I flushed the pigeon. She chased for a short distance.

I got another release trap and hid 2 pigeons on my side and put another in an area, on my neighbor’s side, where she had never found a bird. She found the two on my side and was pretty steady. On one of the pigeons I was standing behind her. She had a front foot in the air and set it down. As soon as it touched the ground I flushed the pigeon. She chased.

The next bird was hidden near an old pond that only has water during the wet times. It’s real close to my kennels and I seldom hide birds there. I have never hid one for Millie there. The time before we had only had 2 pigeons out so she really wasn’t expecting another. She was well off the bird when she ran into a small cove in the yard. She circled back down the other side and was really going fast when she hit the scent cone. Her front legs stopped and her rear legs slid around. Then she took a step. I let her get by with one step but then she decided to take another and I flushed the pigeon. She chased a short distance.

Lew and I talked for a few minutes then I hid 3 more pigeons. Millie pointed all 3 and didn’t even try to move with either Lew or me walking in front of her. Each of these pigeons were hidden in bushes and when we got close to the bird and kicked a bush I flushed the pigeon. Most of the time when you kick a bush or something a wild bird would flush. That’s what we were trying to mimic. We will work her some more before the season but she has a good start. You could shoot birds over her now.

The string around Abby’s toes.

Before Lew got here with Millie I worked Abby and Boss on the retrieving bench. They both are taking the dowel without much pressure and occasionally with no pressure. I’ve been moving it down toward the bench top and today both dogs picked the dowel up from the table top. I had to have my hand on the end of the dowel but that is a start.

Today, I worked Sally on retrieving right in front of the kennel. I even took a picture of her running full out bringing the Dokken quail back to me, without her stopping. The last time when she saw the camera she stopped until I was through taking the picture. I had her retrieve about 6 or 7 times then let her run for a few minutes. I rode the 4-wheeler while she ran to the back and then back to the kennel area. I sat on my stump and petted her while she ate treats.

Sally waiting for me to take the dummy.

I brought Mann out next. Mann is starting to enjoy retrieving because he gets lots of petting. He will take the treats but he would be fine with just petting. I make him and Sally both retrieve the dummy and hold it until I take it. Then they get the treat. If they drop the dummy when they get back to me I grab it and throw it again, without giving the treat. They learned pretty quick to do everything right.

I followed Mann on the 4-wheeler while he made two circles of the back yard. Then I sat on the stump and petted him. He will not take a treat when I’m petting him here but he would stand all day if I would keep petting him, I believe. I forgot to take a picture of Mann’s retrieves.

Mann on point.

I heeled Abby near the retrieving bench then whoaed her, stroked her sides, tapped her head and said, “up”. She ran and jumped onto the retrieving bench. I walked both sides of the bench petting her and giving her treats. Then I put the string on her front leg with a half hitch around her toes. I held the dowel just above the table top, pulled on the string and said, “fetch”. She took the dowel but didn’t raise her head. I raised her head and petted her.

The next few retrieves I laid the dowel on the table top but left my hand on the end. She took the dowel but still didn’t raise her head. I raised it for her and petted her a lot. The last 2 retrieves I laid the dowel on the bench top and just had my hand near. She took the dowel. I raised her head and petted her telling her what a good girl she is. I heeled her back to the kennel, got on the 4-wheeler, started it and said, “okay”.

Boss pointing a pigeon in the tree above him.

She is fast to the back. I really think this, “happy timing” as Delmar Smith called it, is really important for the dogs. It releases some of the stress that the force fetch places on the dogs. After a couple of laps around the yard I sat on the stump petting her and feeding treats. This also causes some of the tension to go away, I think. I put her in her kennel.

Boss doesn’t like the treats so he’s more reluctant than Abby to get on the retrieving bench. When I first started this force fetch I whoaed him 15 yards or so from the bench and tapped his head and said, “up” and he would run and jump onto the bench. Now he doesn’t run toward the bench but saunters up to it and jumps on. It’s like he’s saying, “you can make me do it but I won’t like it”.

I’m going to change treats to see if I can find something he likes. That might help. He does like to be petted though. I walk both sides of the bench petting him. Then I put the string on his leg with a half hitch around his toes. He, too, takes the dowel without raising his head. I held it right above the bench and tightened the string. He took the dowel and I raised his head and petted him.

Sally pointing quail.

The next few I held with one end touching the bench and I was holding the other end. He took them without much pressure. The last 2 times, I just had a finger touching the end of the dowel, with it laying on the bench. He took it without raising his head. I petted him and heeled him back to the 4-wheeler. I put him on whoa, got on the 4-wheeler, started it, put it in gear then said, “okay”. He’s really fast to the back.

Earlier this year I was walking them to the back and Boss went about a mile to the west. Now I ride the 4-wheeler so I can be closer to them when they get to the back. If I’m close to them they will turn and stay on my property and the neighbor’s property. After a couple of laps I sat on the stump petting him. He doesn’t want treats. He wants to crawl into my lap to be petted. I enjoy that as well. After a few minutes I put him in his kennel.

Sally on point Vince’s short hair, Allie, honoring.

I go really slow when I’m force breaking a dog or in this case dogs. Someone being paid to force break someone’s dog couldn’t do it the way I do. No one wants to pay for that much time but I want the dog to really learn each step before we move on. I think my force is less but the force is still there. I don’t like that part but I believe it’s necessary. Getting them to move a few steps and pick a dummy off the table is a big step and when you get that far most of the force is finished. Hopefully, that won’t be long.

I had a friend bring a young dog over and work it on my backing dog. We, after working the second day on backing, put some pigeons out for it to point. Working with the young dog made me regret selling Bodie. I really enjoy working the dogs on birds and I hate force fetching the dogs. But in my opinion, for a reliable retrieve, they need to be force fetched.

Mann after the pigeon had flown.

Abby really concentrating on this honor.

Sally pointing quail.

I have been trying to work Abby and Boss twice a day on the retrieving bench. Some days I actually get it done, some days I don’t.

A few days ago, I heeled Mann from the kennel and whoaed him where the rest of the dogs could see us working on the retrieve. Mann is starting to really enjoy retrieving. I threw the Dokken quail and he ran to it, picked it up and ran straight back with the dummy. I had him hold for a few seconds then said, “give”. He dropped it in my hand. I tried to give him a treat but all he wanted was to be petted.

The Dokken quail has a string on it so you can throw it farther. For Mann and Sally I throw as far as I can. On the second throw Mann crossed in front of me just as the dummy was moving at it’s fastest. It hit him in the side of the head and knocked him to his knees. The dummy still went about 15 yards. My first thought was he will never retrieve again. Mann went straight to the dummy, scooped it up and returned. I did a lot of apologizing, that he really didn’t understand but he liked the petting. I threw the dummy a few more times then let him run for a while.

My neighbor and I cut a large elm tree down close to the kennels. It was dead and in danger of falling on the pigeon pen or maybe the kennels. We had left a tall, maybe ten feet tall, stump. Earlier this year I cut the stump to about chair height. Before returning the dogs to the kennel I sit on the stump and pet each dog. The girls, Sally and Abby, really like the treats I feed them but not the boys, Mann and Boss. Mann would stand and let me pet him all day, I think. Boss crawls into my lap. Neither will even eat a treat.

Turkey season is open in Missouri now. To the west of me is a lot of farm land that has several people hunting. I run the dogs with the 4-wheeler so I can keep them from going off my property. Most of the dogs try to stay in front of the 4-wheeler. I stay right behind them to the back of my property then as I make the turn to head back toward the kennels I get them in front of me, again. When it’s cool enough I let them make two rounds. Yesterday I didn’t get a chance to let them run until late in the day and once was enough with the temperature being in the seventies.

Boss pointing a pigeon

I worked Sally next. She will work for treats. She figured out really quickly that if she did everything right on a retrieve she got a treat. If she dropped the dummy when she got back to me, instead of holding it, she didn’t get a treat. She stands with the dummy in her mouth until I say, “give”.

It’s really hard to video Sally retrieving. Most of the pictures I have taken of my dogs were when they were on point so she stops when she sees me raise the camera. Her dad, Turbo, did the same in a hunt test one time causing a judge to laugh and say, “That’s the first time I ever saw a dog pose for a picture.”

All of these dogs love to run and they can run fast when I ride the 4-wheeler. After running her to the back I sat on the tree stump and petted her. She also got 4 or 5 treats.

Boss pointing Abby honoring.

I heeled Abby near the retrieving bench but whoaed her about 15 yards from it, took the Wonder lead off, tapped her head and said, “up”. She ran and jumped onto the retrieving bench. I walked both sides of the bench petting her at several spots on the bench. I put the string around her toes and held the dowel in front of her and said, “fetch”. I tighten the string each time but now most times it’s just a slight pressure. She knows that if she takes the dowel the pressure goes off. If her head is high I hold the dowel near her feet. If her head is low I hold it higher. She is doing a good job reaching for the dowel. After about 8 or 10 fetches I heel her back to near the 4-wheeler.

When we get close I say, “whoa”, take the Wonder lead off and get on the 4-wheeler. After I start the 4-wheeler and put it in gear I say, “okay”. All of the dogs go as fast as possible to the back. They aren’t as fast as they are when they know I have pigeons out for them but they are fast. After a good run I sit on the stump and feed her treats as I pet her.

Boss is next. He is not as far along as Abby is because he’s trying different things to beat me. I started stopping him before we got to the retrieving bench and sending him to leap on before I did Abby. But he’s trying to be tentative with every thing right now. I heeled him to the bench and said, “up”. He jumped onto the bench. I walked both sides of the bench petting him.

Mann on point Sally honoring.

I put the string around his toes. I placed the dowel right in front of his mouth, pulled on the string and said, “fetch”. He took the dowel but just barely closed his mouth on it. I raised his head, petted him and tapped on the dowel. He tightened on the dowel. After a few seconds I said, “give”. He didn’t want to give the dowel up. There is no pressure when the dowel is in his mouth. I only said, “give” once and waited. After several seconds he moved his head off the dowel.

After the first time I started raising and lowering the dowel so he had to reach for it. His hold got better as we went along. He knows what it takes to end the session and he goes through the motions. This part of the force fetch is not fun for either of us. I heeled him back near the 4-wheeler and put him on whoa. I got on the 4-wheeler and let him run.

Sally pointing a single.

When we got back to the kennels I sat on the stump and Boss crawled into my lap. I don’t know whether it’s pay back or not but he seems to always find some mud to get into just before we get to the stump. But I allow him to get onto my lap and I pet him. After a couple of minutes I put him in his kennel. I may enjoy the petting more than the dogs.

I’m recycling pictures because I haven’t been working the dogs on pigeons and I don’t take pictures on the retrieving bench right now because I want to really focus on what the young dogs are doing.

Another day of rain. But April showers should bring May flowers and weeds for quail, we hope. The rain does make the grass grow this time of year and I have to mow a lot and often. I mow my yard which is almost 5 acres plus the part of my neighbor’s that I use to work dogs. I do leave strips of grass on both sides to hide pigeons. I use these grass strips, mainly for puppies and dogs that are new to pigeons. An older dog, that has never been worked on pigeons or birds in a release trap, I sometimes hide a few in the grass strips until they get used to finding the hidden birds.

Sally pointing a pigeon.

Boss, stretched out, pointing a pigeon.

Abby pointing a pigeon.

I run all 4 of these dogs with e-collars and GPS collars. This week turkey season has opened in Missouri and I don’t want to have problems with hunters. Sometimes the younger dogs go off my property to the west and that’s where some people turkey hunt. So I ride the 4-wheeler, when I let the dogs run. That way when they get to the west side of my place I’m close to them. They like to run in front of the 4-wheeler so they don’t go to the west. If they do go off me I can call them back, quickly.

I have been working Mann on retrieving a dummy for several weeks. He was force broke with a lot of pressure and didn’t really like to retrieve but since he was force broke he would retrieve. When we were hunting and he saw a bird drop he would have it back so quick the guys I were hunting with, if they weren’t watching him, wouldn’t know it had been retrieved. They were surprised when I had it in my hand. But Mann wasn’t happy.

So for several weeks I have thrown dummies, mainly Dokken quail, chukar and dove dummies, for Mann. When he returns with the dummy I have him hold for a few seconds, then say, “give” and when he drops the dummy in my hand I give him a small treat. For the whole time, until yesterday, he would retrieve but he didn’t really show any signs that he liked retrieving. For a few weeks his tail was down when he ran to the dummy.

Then for a week or so his tail was up but not really wagging. Yesterday, his tail was up and cracking and his head was up. Finally, he acted like he enjoyed retrieving. I had him retrieve 6 or 7 times then let him run for a while. I have a stump on my neighbor’s side near the kennels that I cut to the right height to sit on. When we get back close to the kennels I sit and pet the dogs. Abby and Sally want treats while I’m petting them but Mann and Boss are happy with just being petted. Boss even crawls into my lap. Right now Boss is only about 40 pounds. If he gets much bigger he will be more than a lap full.

Mann after the pigeon had flown.

Sally was force broke by me but when she was first force broke she enjoyed retrieving bumpers but it was hard getting her to understand that she needed to retrieve birds in the field. I could throw one and tell her to fetch and she would but when she found a dead bird she picked it up and dropped it. Last season near the end she made the connection. She did a good job retrieving. Some of my good retrievers I have fed them quail heads when they retrieved but Sally didn’t seem to like them. I want to build on that so I work her most days on retrieving.

I throw the dummy as far as I can and get a treat in my hand before she gets back. I make her hold the dummy for a few seconds then with my hand under the dummy say, “give”. When she drops it in my hand I give her the treat. She demands the treat. I may have to carry treats during the hunting season but that’s a small price to pay to have good retrievers.

After I let her run for a while I sit on the stump and pet her, too. But for Sally petting isn’t all of it. She demands treats. I give her 4 or 5 treats then put her in her kennel.

Sally, in orange vest, and Abby honoring Mann.

Abby was next. Her and Boss are being force broke, slowly, to retrieve. I heeled her to about 15 yards of the retrieving bench, whoaed her, tapped her head and said, “up”. She ran and jumped onto the bench. I fed her some treats then walked her up and down the bench, petting her and feeding her treats.

I slipped the string on her leg and placed the half hitch around her toes. The first time or two when I pull on the string I have the dowel right in front of her mouth. She reaches for the dowel and I quit pulling on the string. I have done this enough that she is reaching a few inches for the dowel. She knows how to get the pressure of the string to let off. Now if she’s standing with her head down I hold the dowel above her line of sight. She will reach for the dowel. Yesterday I moved the dowel to almost touching the bench and she reached several inches for the dowel. When she’s picking the dowel up from the bench we will be ready to move on.

I set her on the ground and heeled her back close to the kennel. I whoaed her and started the 4-wheeler and said, “okay”. She ran to the back and then we went to the front yard then to the back and back to the kennel. This is a little more running than I do when I’m walking but the dogs seem to enjoy staying in front of the 4-wheeler. I put her in the kennel.

Sally center, Mann on the left honoring Ally on the right.

I heeled Boss close to the retrieving bench and whoaed him. I took the wonder lead off, stroked his sides, tapped his head and said, “up”. Boss doesn’t like the treats as well as Abby does and now he’s slower jumping on the bench. He was the one that started the jumping on the bench but the force breaking is taking some of that out.

He still jumps on but he’s slower. I pet him as we walk up and down the retrieving bench. I always offer a treat but he usually doesn’t take one. I put the string on his leg with a half hitch around his toes. He’s ready to take the dowel as soon as I tug on the string. When he has his head down I hold the dowel above eye level and pull on the string. He raised his head and took the dowel. I held the dowel low and he reached almost to the floor and took the dowel. Both of these dogs are learning to relieve the pressure by getting the dowel in their mouth. I heeled him back to the kennel.

Sally pointing a single.

When we got close to the 4-wheeler I whoaed him and got on the 4-wheeler. I started it, put it in gear and said, “okay”. He’s really fast and I had to hurry to be close when he got to the back. I got him turned with no trouble and we went back to the front yard then to the back again then to the kennel. I sat on the tree stump and Boss crawled into my lap. That’s a lot of dog for one lap but he really enjoys that and so do I. After a few minutes I put him in his kennel. A fun few hours.

I have been working the dogs, weather permitting, on retrieving. Abby and Boss on the bench, force breaking them, and Sally and Mann, who have been through the force breaking, on getting better at retrieving. Mann will retrieve the dummies and is really good at retrieving birds he sees fall but he doesn’t enjoy retrieving. I had someone force break him and they used too much force, I think. But with a lot of easy retrieves and lots of treats he’s starting to enjoy retrieving, maybe.

A head shot of Sally pointing a pigeon.

Boss pointing a pigeon.

Sally pointing a pigeon.

I heel Abby and Boss close to the retrieving bench, whoa them then tap their head and say, “up”. They run and jump onto the retrieving bench from about 15 yards away. I had started by running the chain, that I hook to the dogs collar, around the 4×4 post at one end of the retrieving bench so the dog couldn’t move around to fight me. After a few days they were no longer fighting so I quit hooking them to the chain at all. Boss decided he had had enough. He jumped off the retrieving bench but didn’t go far. I whoaed him then said, “Up”. He jumped back on.

After that I continued to attach the chain where they could run up and down the bench. Again, Boss decided to get off. This time the chain held him where his feet were touching the ground but he couldn’t go anywhere. I started toward him to put him back on but he was able to climb back on by himself. He hasn’t tried that again. After the retrieving session is over I always pick them up and set them on the ground. Just before I set them on the ground I say, “whoa”. It’s really hard on dogs, especially puppies, bones to jump off anything.

I tried to use the ear pinch to make the dogs open their mouth but either I don’t understand exactly what I’m doing or I don’t have the strength. But long story short, after pinching Abby’s ear for a few seconds and her yawning at me I went to the string around the toes. I’ve used this in the past and it works for me. I don’t ever jerk on the string. I use a steady pull until they open their mouth then let off as I insert the dowel.

Like I said earlier, when I first started, I ran the chain around the 4×4 at the end of the bench so the pups had to stand. I pulled on the string until they opened their mouth and I placed the dowel right behind their canine teeth. The dogs learned pretty quick that the pressure came off when they opened their mouth. After about 3 days I quit wrapping the chain around the post. This gave them a little more room to move but they, by this time, were used to standing and taking the dowel.

Wrap the chain that’s hooked to his collar around the 4×4 and he can’t move his head.

Before all of this, I had, for several weeks, been squeezing their lip against their teeth and when they opened their mouth I placed my fingers behind their canine teeth. So this concept wasn’t new to them. After a few days of not saying anything when I put pressure on their toes I started saying, “fetch” just before I pulled on the string. A few times both dogs opened their mouth when I said, “fetch” before I could pull on the string. That tells me they understand how to take the pressure off.

I was helping them, by whenever they opened their mouth, whether before or after I pulled on the string, I placed the dowel behind their canine teeth. The last few days I have been making them reach an inch or two for the dowel. So far, they are moving slow, but they are reaching for the dowel.

Mann after the pigeon had flown.

All of this is really stressful for the dogs so I let them run for a while after we’re through. I pet them a lot and even feed them a few treats as we get back to the kennels. Abby really likes the treats but Boss just wants to be petted, most times. The other day when I got to the back of my place Boss was about a hundred yards to the west. All of the dogs check this area out from time to time. I started back to the kennel and called Boss and toned him with his e-collar.

I walked on toward the kennels. I checked the GPS and he was even farther west of my place. I called him, hit the tone on his e-collar and continued on toward the kennel. I checked the GPS and he was still going west. I hit the tone and gave him a light stimulation with the e-collar. Usually, he comes with the tone but he always comes with the tone and a little stimulation. I checked the GPS and he wasn’t coming. Well really, he would come a few yards and I would think he’s on his way. Then he would be going west again.

I started getting serious with the e-collar. I kept turning it up but he wasn’t coming. Pretty soon he was a mile to the west. That’s probably out of my e-collar range. I worked Abby on the retrieving bench then let her run for a while. When we got back to the kennel I petted her for a while and put her up.

Boss pointing Abby honoring.

I got on the 4-wheeler and rode to the back calling Boss. Part of the time he was over a hill and my GPS just showed a question mark. A lot of times, because I have run them off the 4-wheeler, they will get in front of it when I’m riding the training grounds, looking for them. Not this time.

I rode back to the kennel. I turned the other dogs out into my big pen, cleaned pens, changed their water and fed them all. Just before I finished with the last kennel Boss came to the kennel area. He was hot and he wanted a drink. His tongue was hanging to his knees, almost. I took the GPS collar off and put him in his kennel. No treats or petting for Boss tonight. But he didn’t care. He had a good run. I had thought maybe his e-collar wasn’t working but when I checked it was just fine.

If I work Abby and Boss on retrieving twice a day I also work Mann and Sally twice a day. Sally has been force broke to retrieve and she enjoys it. I force broke her a few years ago and she’s getting better about retrieving dead birds. She does a good job on the dummies I throw for her but retrieving birds is not the same.

Sally center, Mann on the left honoring Ally on the right.

This last season she did a good job on the dead birds but I think all of the exercises we are doing with the Dokken quail, dove and chukar, she will do even better next season. I think she will be faster maybe not better. Sally definitely works for the treats so if I carry treats or start feeding her the heads from the quail she will retrieve really well, I think.

Mann is a different dog. He doesn’t really care for the treats but he really likes to be petted. He leans against me when he comes in, holding the dummy until I say, “give”. For him and Sally I only throw the dummies 6 or 7 times then let them run for a while. Mann is now, after about a month of retrieving in the yard, retrieving like he kind of enjoys it. Not whole heartedly but kind of likes it. But he does like the petting and he will even take a treat once in a while.

Boss honoring.

Just having something to do with the dogs, that will get me out of the house and will get the dogs out is worth a lot. I think having the dogs disciplined enough to be good retrievers makes a better bond between man and dog. When dogs understand what you want and they know you’re happy with them for doing it, they’re happy, too.