Traveling Pointing Dogs

This morning I worked my English setter puppies. Each time I work Babe she gets better. She has been showing something close to fear of the release traps. One day I think she is afraid then she shows me something where there is no fear. She really likes birds. When she is playing close to the pigeon pen she watches them all of the time. If I get one out she comes running to chase it as I let it fly away. When she hunts she really hunts hard and checks each place that I have hidden a pigeon for her before.

Babe pointed her first pigeon, this morning.

I sat on the 4-wheeler and watched Babe.

Mann on point.

I put an e-collar and hooking a check cord to Mann’s regular collar and walking him with the piggin’ string east to the highway then north to the fence line and then back to the retrieving bench with a stop at a place board. I whoaed Mann every few yards then said, “heel” and led him another few feet. When we got to the place board I whoaed him several times on it. I have an airline kennel near the retrieving bench where I worked him on kenneling. After he kenneled about 6 times I had him jump onto the retrieving bench. (I have to help him but he tries.) I use the retrieving bench as a loving bench. I put him on the chain gang.

I put an e-collar on Babe, hooked a 10 foot check cord to her collar and led her out of the kennel with the piggin’ string. The e-collar isn’t turned on and I don’t carry the transmitter. I just want the pups to get used to the e-collar. I walked her to the highway on the east then across the yard and back to the retrieving bench. I also worked her a few times on the place board. I had her kennel 6 or 7 times then put her on the retrieving bench. After a few minutes of petting I put her on the chain gang.

I still had Vince Dye’s release traps made by Dogtra. They are quieter than my DT traps. I hid two pigeons on the training grounds and led Mann away from the chain gang with the piggin’ string. I whoaed him several times as I led him to where I was going to turn him loose. I took the piggin’ string off and tapped him on the head saying okay. He was away in hurry. I jumped onto the 4-wheeler and followed him.

We had just a slight breeze from the north east and I had hidden both release traps on the neighbor’s side of the training grounds. I usually ride the 4-wheeler to the back on both sides so the puppies won’t learn to follow the 4-wheeler tracks to the birds. I want them using and trusting their nose. Mann missed the first pigeon by being on the wrong side as he came down the field. He smelled the next bird from quite a distance. His head was high and his tail was cracking as he went toward the pigeon. He went on point about 10 or 12 yards from the pigeon. I took pictures and after about a minute I walked in front of him scuffing my feet on the ground. I kicked the bushes 4 or 5 times then flushed the pigeon. He never moved until the pigeon flew. He chased then went back to hunting.

The next pigeon was hard to smell, I guess. Mann pointed but his tail was curled down at the end. Usually, he points with a straight, twelve o’clock tail. I took pictures then walked in front of him kicking the cover. After a couple of kicks I flushed the pigeon. He chased just a short distance and went back to hunting.

I tried to get him to come to me so I could put him on the chain gang but he had other ideas. He went back through the training grounds. I called him a couple of times. He came close and I thought he would get close enough for me to grab the check cord but he stayed away. I rode the 4-wheeler to the pigeon coop and when he got close I stepped on his check cord. I put him in his kennel.

Mann pointing.

I reloaded the release traps. I led Babe from the chain gang with the piggin’ string whoaing her every few feet. I tapped her head for the release and jumped onto the 4-wheeler to follow her. She turned toward the back on the neighbor’s side after checking out my side. The first pass she went on the wrong side and I made a circle at the back on the 4-wheeler. As we started back toward the front she hit the scent cone and went on point. I sat on the 4-wheeler watching. She has been pointing then backing up or circling. This morning she stayed on point and I stayed on the 4-wheeler. I didn’t say anything or do anything. I took several pictures but other than that I just watched. After more than a minute she took a step toward the pigeon and I flushed the bird. The pigeon only flew up into a tree above the release trap. She jumped into the brush rearing up trying to reach the pigeon. I let her try for a minute or so and rode away calling her. She came past me hunting.

As we moved up the field she got a little smell off the next pigeon and pointed. She was on point for maybe 10 seconds then backed up a step. I got off the 4-wheeler and she came to me. I carried her back to where she had been on point and styled her up. She would stay as long as I stroked her sides and belly. I stepped away and she stayed styled up. I went back and stroked her some more then flushed the pigeon. She chased then went back to hunting. I went back to the chain gang and tied her when she came to me.

Tur Bo pointing a pigeon.

I moved the release traps and reloaded them. I heeled Babe out and whoaed her several times before turning her loose to hunt. I rode the 4-wheeler so I could keep up. We covered my side but both traps were on the neighbor’s side. We crossed over and went toward the back. She pointed as soon as she hit the scent cone. Before I could take pictures she took a step toward the release trap. I flushed the pigeon and she chased then went back to hunting.

When I got to the second pigeon she was already on point. I knew she was close so I got off the 4-wheeler and went toward her. She stayed on point. I got close and saw she wasn’t right on top of the bird. I backed up and kept an eye on her. When she started toward the pigeon I flushed it. This was a young bird and it only flew a few feet and lit on a low limb. She reared up and jumped trying to catch the bird. She came with me when I rode away. I put her back on the chain gang.

Mann pointing a pigeon.

I moved the release traps to my side of the training grounds and reloaded them. I heeled Babe away from the chain gang and released her to hunt. She came to the first pigeon, pointed then circled. I let her move around. I’m trying to figure her out while she’s trying to figure this game out. She pointed again then moved. She pointed holding it for a few seconds then moved. I flushed the pigeon and she chased then went back to hunting.

The wind was only 3 miles an hour according to the weather channel and she was having a hard time finding the next bird. I got off the 4-wheeler. When I walked close to the pigeon Babe came beside me and went on point. I knelt down and stroked her sides and belly. As I brushed her tail I pushed her forward. She pushed back. After a couple of minutes I flushed the pigeon. She chased then went back to hunting. I let her play for a while then put her back in the kennel.

Babe is learning. All I have done is set her back and stroke her or flush the pigeons when she moves. Other than the noise of the traps I don’t know of anything happening to cause this. She seems better with the Dogtra traps than with the DT’s. But she seems like she wants the pigeons more every time I work her. I have some Dogtra release traps on the way. She won’t have to work with the DT’s until I get her through this. Most things can be fixed with enough birds and no harsh treatment.

As I cleaned pens and fed the dogs this afternoon I remembered something that happened after I finished training, that I thought was neat. The puppies always follow me when I ride back to pick up the release traps. Since Mann was in his kennel there was only Babe. When we got near the trap at the very back Babe pointed the trap. Normally, I would let her figure out that there was nothing there but I had two pigeons on the 4-wheeler. I grabbed a bird and went on the other side of the clump the trap was in and tossed the pigeon. It must have been a young bird and it flew into the tree near the trap. While she watched that bird I got the other pigeon from the 4-wheeler. I tossed it in front of her and it flew to a low limb on a nearby tree. She thought she could get this one. I called her and rode on back to the kennel area but she didn’t come. I waited a little while then rode back. She was still there trying to get that bird. I called her and she returned to the kennel area with me. She’s starting to like birds.

Mann on point.

Mann. Not enough scent for a straight tail.

I have been training young dogs for quite a few years and thought I knew what I was doing but these two have taught me some things. When I started them on pigeons, in release traps, I put the traps out in the yard and worked both young dogs close then released the birds. I have done a lot of young dogs this way. A lot of friends have brought their young dogs over to work on my pigeons. Some friends of friends brought dogs. Every young dog that is brought to my place, to be worked on pigeons, is started this way. I’ve never had a problem, until now.

Mann pointing a pigeon.

Babe is laid back on the chain gang.

Mann’s head when he is on point.

I have 4 DT release traps that I have used for several years. Before I got these I had another brand. With them if the dog pointed close to the bird and the dog was fast they could catch the bird. From the time you pushed the button it took about a second for the trap to open. The DT”s were faster and worked well. They made some noise opening but I never had any trouble.

In the yard, when I worked Babe close she showed no fear. I, also, placed the release traps close to her kennel run. She would rear up on the wire at the end of her run when the traps were near. I would release the birds one at a time and she never showed any fear. Continued to stand with her feet on the wire. I thought I had both young dogs acclimated to the release traps.

Babe hunted hard. I could see her poke her head in every spot I had ever hidden a bird for her. She wanted to find them. When she did find them she would stop, back up and sometimes come to me. She would try to get me between her and the bird. Because I had never had a problem with the young dogs I had started, as I started her, I didn’t recognize the signs of fear.

I should have. A friend of mine had a young dog become gun shy after having been started right and even hunted for a while. She had been shot around several times but something happened on one hunt that caused her to become gun shy. One of the dogs pointed and he and I both shot on some quail and the young dog got behind him. He recognized the problem immediately and took her to the truck. With a lot of time and a lot of birds she came out of this but if he hadn’t put her up when he did it would have been real bad. We still don’t know why she got fearful.

I thought that Babe was just not as aggressive as Mann. I turned pigeons loose when the young dogs were playing close to the pigeon coop. She chased and would even point them when they were on the ground, near the coop. Mann would rear up in the pigeon coop doorway when I was getting a pigeon out. Babe would come near but sit waiting. When I came out with a bird she would come toward me then chase as I let the bird fly.

I tied a string to a release trap and to the legs on a pigeon. She pointed the pigeon when I flushed it, it flew to the end of the string and hit the ground. She pointed the pigeon then ran in and grabbed the bird. I did this two or three times thinking this would build up her enthusiasm.

Once when I had her out by herself I turned a young pigeon out, that didn’t fly, near the pigeon coop. Instead of grabbing the pigeon she ran circles around it. Finally, the bird went under the pigeon coop. Babe tried to get under the coop and get the pigeon but she was too large to get under.

A friend, Vince Dye, ordered some release traps. He wasn’t going to be home when they were to be delivered so he had them delivered to my house. He told me to put them together and try them. They were Dogtra’s. They were smaller and Vince said they were quieter than the one’s I had.

Mann pointing a pigeon.

Not much to putting them together. Plug in a wire and they were working. I took them out the next morning after charging them the evening before. I tried one and it was real quiet. I put two pigeons out and ran Babe down the field. She hunted good but when she smelled the birds she stopped then started to back up. Before she could hardly move I punched the bird out. There was almost no noise of the trap. She went toward the trap. The pigeon flew away and we went hunting the next trap.

When she pointed the next one she again tried to back away. I flushed the pigeon and I could tell that she wasn’t as bothered by this trap as she was from mine. She wasn’t a lot better but some. That was when it finally got through to me that she had a fear of the traps. I put her on the chain gang.

I worked Mann on them and he was fine. The first trap he came to he started to point then moved. I flushed the pigeon and he chased. These must have smelled a little different from my traps. The next pigeon he pointed and let me go in front of him kicking the cover. When he took a step I flushed the pigeon. I was close to this pigeon and could hardly hear the trap. I went to the chain gang but Mann wouldn’t come to me so I went back to the pigeon coop. When he reared up on the doorway I caught him and put him in his kennel.

I put two more pigeons out for Babe. She still hunted hard. When she smelled the pigeons she still wanted to move. Sometimes she moved to the side sometimes back. She hunts so good that it’s still hard to see that she is afraid of the sound of the trap. She worked these two pigeons and I put her back on the chain gang.

Mann pointing.

I put out two more birds. She hunted harder and faster than she had been. I can tell each place where I have hidden a bird for her in the past. She checks every one. She pointed the first pigeon and went to circle it. I flushed the pigeon. She chased then went back to hunting. The second one of this series when she pointed and I started toward her she wanted to get behind me. I carried her to where she had pointed from and styled her up. She would stand there as long as I would stroke her sides and push on her back end. I flushed the pigeon and she never flinched. She did chase. I put her back on the chain gang.

Again, I put out two more birds for her. This time I rode the 4-wheeler. She hunted hard. Each time I put out birds for her I moved the release traps to a different location. The first pigeon she pointed, she again tried to get behind me after I got off the 4-wheeler. I set her back where she had originally pointed and styled her up. I stroked her sides and brushed her tail up. Normally, I don’t touch them or brush their tail up. But this is a special case. I flushed the pigeon and again she didn’t flinch at the sound of the trap. She chased then went back to hunting.

We were moving back up the training grounds when she hit the scent cone on the next pigeon. She went on point. I sat on the 4-wheeler watching her. She was standing up with a high head but her tail was about level with her back. Some times her tail was wagging but it was a real point without her trying to bail out. After about 30 seconds of her point she took a step toward the bird and I flushed it. The bird came out low and she chased it. I let her play a while before taking her back to the kennel.

I know she’s not cured but she’s on the way. I put 4 pigeons out for her this morning in a light rain. She hunted harder. I tried to walk with her the first time and she was too far ahead of me. On the first bird she was maybe 65 yards ahead of me when she went on point. As I walked toward her she took a step toward the bird and I flushed it. She chased the bird and then went back to hunting.

The second bird she was pretty close to when she pointed. I started toward her and she took a step toward the bird. I flushed the pigeon. She chased then went back to hunting. On both of these birds she paid less attention to me and more to the pigeons. Because of the light mist I put her in the kennel.

Mann again.

I put two more pigeons out and worked Mann on them. He’s even faster than Babe. We went down on the neighbor’s side but he crossed over to my side. I crossed over after jogging a ways. I almost put that I ran but most people wouldn’t even call what I did jogging, probably. I didn’t see him on my side but I went all the way to the back. He wasn’t in the tall weeds or brush. I went back toward the front and crossed to the neighbor’s side. When I got almost to the back I saw him on point. About the time I saw him he took a step and I flushed the pigeon. He chased then went back to hunting.

We went back and crossed over to my side. He was quite a ways from the next pigeon when he pointed. I took some pictures then walked closer. I stood off to the side and kicked the cover. I kicked one time and flushed the pigeon. Some of the time I kick several times and sometimes only once. He chased a short way then went back to hunting. I took him back to the kennel.

The mist had let up so I moved the traps and hid two more pigeons. I turned Babe out but this time I rode the 4-wheeler. We went toward the back on the neighbor’s side. She went on point and I got off the 4-wheeler. She wanted to come to me. I carried her back to where she was on point. I stroked her sides and brushed her tail up. She stood as proud as she could be. I stroked her for a minute or two. I flushed the pigeon and she chased then went back to hunting.

We crossed over to my side and she wanted to point where the pigeon had been before. I encouraged her to move. She went just a few feet and went on point. She was 30 yards from the pigeon but we had a good breeze blowing. When I got off the 4-wheeler she wanted to come to me. I carried her to where she had been on point. She was far enough away that I wanted her to get closer. I tapped her head and said, “okay”. She moved about 10 yards and went on point. I stroked her sides and brushed her tail up. After a few seconds I flushed the pigeon. She chased then went back to hunting. I took her back to the kennel.

I worked Mann on two birds and he did fine. I ordered some Dogtra release traps. If that’s what it takes to make a bird dog out of her, we’ll do it. I should have recognized that as fear to start with but she hunts so hard, for a young dog, that it’s hard to see. If I heel her anywhere and there is birds in the air she watches the birds. Every time she gets close to a pigeon she tries to catch it. That’s not the sign of a fearful dog. But I really believe the other release traps bother her.

Babe watching the pigeons.

Babe after a pigeon under the coop.

Babe after I’ve styled her.

My English setter puppies only come to me when they want to, not when I want them to, most times. I decided to start them on heel, whoa and here. I heeled them from the kennel east to the road then across the yard to the north then back to the chain gang west of the dog pens. This loop is about 4 tenths of a mile according to the app on my phone. I heeled them for a ways then stopped. It will be a few days before I tell them heel and whoa.

Tur Bo, Sally, Mann and Babe on the chain gang.

Tur Bo after the pigeon has flown.

Sally pointing a pigeon.

There is a shooting range, with rifle, pistol, skeet and trap, in a county park near my house. There is a road just east of it that I like to take the pups when there is a lot of shooting going on. The closest I can get to the shooting range is about 800 yards but this gives the puppies a little taste of being shot around. When I first got Sally, the first time or two she went down this road I could tell she didn’t like the shooting. After a few trips she was okay. I think this helps on getting them used to being shot around.

I took Babe down the road for about half a mile. It was an off and on rainy day so there wasn’t many shooters but what few we heard didn’t bother Babe at all. I had heeled her down the road and stopped a few times. On the way out I grabbed a short check cord she was dragging, called, “here” and drug her to me. I did that 4 or 5 times. I loaded her up and took her back to the kennel.

Mann and I loaded up and went to the park. I heeled him down the road a ways stopping several times. I turned him loose to run. We got all the way to the back and it started to rain. There had been a little bit of shooting but I knew with the rain, most people wouldn’t be shooting, so we started back to the truck. We hadn’t gone far when it really started to come down. Big, cold drops of rain. Mann was out front of me. He turned around and barked at me. It was kind of like, “dumbass you should have known this would happen”. We were real wet by the time we got to the truck but he didn’t hold it against me. He was fine this morning.

This morning I heeled Babe to the road on the east then north across the yard then back to the chain gang. I would stop every once in a while. I put her on the retrieving bench and petted her for a while. I use the retrieving bench as a loving bench more than a retrieving bench. I then put her on the chain gang.

I heeled Mann around the yard and back to the retrieving bench. I petted him for a while then put him on the chain gang.

I brought Sally and Tur Bo down and put them on the chain gang. They should know heel and whoa. Most times they do. I hid three pigeons on the training grounds. I put a pigeon to sleep close to the chain gang. All 4 dogs watched it until I woke it up and let it fly away.

I turned Sally loose and followed her on the 4-wheeler. She hasn’t been moving on her birds so I didn’t put a check cord on her. She did have e-collars around her neck and flanks. She pointed the first pigeon, at the back, on my side of the training grounds. I took pictures then walked in front of her kicking the cover. I flushed the pigeon and shot the blank pistol. She didn’t move. I heeled her away.

I had a frozen quail with me and held it in front of her nose and told her to fetch. She took the quail and held it until I said give. I tossed it a few feet in front of her and told her to fetch. She trotted to it and brought it back. The third time I threw it I must have thrown it too far. She went about half way and came back without the quail. I held the button on the e-collar around her neck down on low 2. I walked part of the way with her and when she reached for the quail I let off the button on the transmitter. I returned to where I had thrown the quail from. She brought it to me and dropped it when I said give. I heeled her away and released her to hunt.

Tur Bo

She pointed the next two pigeons and we worked on the retrieving after flushing the pigeons. As long as I make short throws she is good. If I throw the quail just a little farther she goes part way then comes back. I’ll keep working her on this. I need some retrieving bird dogs. I took her back to the kennel.

I reloaded the release traps and turned Tur Bo loose. He pointed his first bird and I pushed the stake into the ground and tied the check cord to it. I took pictures then walked in front of him kicking the cover. I flushed the pigeon and he never moved. I heeled him away.

I put him on whoa and threw a frozen quail for him. He dashed out, scooped up the quail and came back. I never taught him to sit but he always sits, holding the quail until I tell him to give. I threw the quail three times and he retrieved it each time. I heeled him a few yards and released him to hunt.

He pointed his next pigeon and I forgot to put the stake in the ground and tie the check cord to it. I took pictures, walked in front of him kicking the cover. I flushed the pigeon and shot the blank pistol. He didn’t move. I heeled him away.

I put him on whoa and threw the frozen quail. (A note about the frozen quail. I’ve read that dogs don’t like other dogs drool. I wouldn’t. I reuse these frozen quail and mark which dog has used it on the bag I freeze the bird in.) Tur Bo raced out, grabbed the quail and ran back. He sat holding the quail. He dropped it in my hand when I said, “give”. I threw the quail three times then heeled him away. I released him to hunt.

Sally

I remembered to push the stake in the ground and tie the check cord on the next bird and it was a good thing. He pointed and I went in front of him kicking the cover. I flushed the pigeon and it hit a limb or something and fluttered around trying to get away. Tur Bo wanted to catch him but the check cord stopped him. I tie the check cord real close behind him so he doesn’t have much room to move. I set him back and kicked the cover some more. I heeled him away.

I threw the frozen quail for him three times. He retrieved each time with no problems. I’ve started throwing the quail in the clumps of brush for Tur Bo. He uses his nose to find them and brings them back. He seems to enjoy retrieving now. I hope so. I took him back to the kennel.

Babe and Mann had been on the chain gang all this time. I reloaded the release traps and heeled Babe closer to the bird field. We walked a few yards then stopped. After several stops I turned her loose to hunt. I had the pigeon hidden all the way to the back on my side. She checked almost every spot I have ever hid a bird for her on the way down. She hit the scent cone and went on point. Almost immediately she went down and backed away. At her first movement I flushed the pigeon. She chased the bird a short distance. We went on to the neighbor’s side.

She was still hunting good. She hit the scent cone on the bird at the back and went on point. This time she held her point for maybe 20 seconds. This bird was on a fence row and she went toward the bird. As soon as she moved I flushed the bird. She chased for a ways then went back to hunting.

Babe watching the pigeons.

She hit the scent cone on the next bird and tried to put me between her and the bird. She circled around behind me. I would move and she would stay behind me. I picked her up and set her close where she couldn’t help but smell the bird. I stroked her sides and brushed her tail up. I told her what a good girl she is. She stayed as long as I stroked her. She doesn’t show any fear. I stepped away and she didn’t move. I stroked her some more and flushed the pigeon. The pigeon flew to a limb right above the release trap and she went into the clump to catch the bird. I let her try for a few minutes then took her back to the chain gang.

I reloaded the release traps and heeled Mann back closer to the bird field. He was way ahead of me when he went on point at the back of my place. As I walked to him I kept an eye on him. I was still fifty yards from him when he took a step. I flushed the pigeon and he chased then went back to hunting.

We went to the neighbor’s side. He went to the back, checking all of the cover on the way. He hit the scent cone and locked up. I took some pictures and watched him. After about a minute I walked in front of him kicking the cover. I flushed the pigeon at his first movement and he chased then went back to hunting.

The next pigeon was hard for him because there was very little wind. I like to be able to tell the dogs to, “look in here”, and have them find a bird. Finally, he smelled the bird and went on point. He must not have got a very good scent because his tail is usually straight. This time it was bent. After about a minute I kicked the brush one time and flushed the pigeon. He chased then went back to hunting.

I let Babe and Mann play for a while before putting them back in the kennel. Babe, some of the time, acts like she is coming out of what ever her problem is. I don’t think she’s bird shy. She tries hard to find the birds. I don’t think the traps scare her. I’ve put them near her run in the kennel and released them and she shows no fear. I think she wants to do something after she points. Whatever it is I’ve always said that anything can be cured with enough birds. I have birds and I have the time.

Sally pointing a pigeon.

Tur Bo pointing a pigeon.

Tur Bo pointing a pigeon.