Dog Training 3/24/18

Posted on March 24, 2018 by windypointsj1s@aol.com

We had a light rain during the night that made it a good, cool morning to train a dog. I’m trying to get Tur Bo and Sally to be steady to wing and shot. I really don’t care if they are for quail hunting but I need something to work my dogs on.

Tur Bo on a pigeon.

Sally on a pigeon.

Tur Bo

I put three pigeons, in release traps, in the tall weeds, on my training grounds. I put another three pigeons in a bird bag that I carried with me. I put the e-collars on Tur Bo’s neck and flanks, a check cord on him with a half hitch around his flanks and I led him out of the kennel with the piggin’ string.

I crossed my yard and put Tur Bo on whoa. I had walked him past a tree and I tied his check cord to the tree. I walked out in front of him and took a pigeon from the bird bag. I put a rubber band around one wing on the pigeon. I dropped the pigeon on the ground and it tried to fly but hit the ground. Tur Bo tried to take a step but the check cord tightened around his flanks and stopped him. The pigeon tried to fly again and the rubber band came off. The pigeon only flew a few feet and landed in a cedar tree. Tur Bo turned to watch him with a tight flank check cord. I set him back.

I went back in front of him, took another pigeon from the bag and put a rubber band around it’s wing. I dropped this pigeon and it tried to fly but hit the ground. Tur Bo didn’t move. The pigeon tried to fly again but it couldn’t get off the ground. Tur Bo had eased up until the check cord was tight. I set him back. The pigeon had given up and was running toward the fence. I got in front of him and started him back toward Tur Bo. He tried one more time to fly and the rubber band came off. He flew right over the top of Tur Bo. He whirled to watch the pigeon with a tight check cord. I set him back.



I went back in front of him and took another pigeon from the bag. I put the pigeon’s head under his wing and straightened it’s legs out. The pigeon went to sleep and I placed it on the ground in front of Tur Bo. It only stayed asleep for a few seconds then flew away. I shot the blank pistol. Tur Bo didn’t move.

I led him away, whoaed him, then released him to hunt. It’s almost like Tur Bo wants to run a bunch before he points so he runs to the back before he goes on point. I could see him on point about a hundred yards before I got to him. I slowed down to let him stay on point, longer. When I got close I tied his check cord to a tree then walked in front of him. I kicked the cover, I found a tree limb and beat on other trees then after about a minute and a half, I flushed the pigeon and shot the blank pistol. He didn’t move. I led him away with the piggin’ string. I whoaed him then tapped his head to release him.

Tur Bo

As we went back toward the front I could just see his white color through the brush but I could tell if he moved. He didn’t. I had stepped off the distance from the first bird to where he was and this one was about the same distance. Just under fifteen yards. I tied his check cord to a tree then walked in front of him. I kicked the cover and some trees that were close then flushed the pigeon and shot the blank pistol. He didn’t move. I led him away, whoaed him and tapped him on the head for the release.

The next pigeon was on my north fence line. I saw Tur Bo running close to the fence line, whirl around and go on point. As I started toward him he took a step. I yelled, “whoa” and flushed the pigeon. The pigeon came out of the trap hitting a limb and came back down. It hit the ground and came back up but only flew about 30 yards and landed in the pasture to the north of us. Tur Bo grabbed it about the time the bird hit the ground.

If I had of not flushed the pigeon he wouldn’t have moved any farther, I don’t think, but when the pigeon hit the limb and came back to the ground in Tur Bo’s mind that was his bird. And he got it.

Once the dog has caught the pigeon there is nothing to do but use it as a retrieving drill. I knelt down and called Tur Bo. He came in a dead run with the pigeon in his mouth. I petted him then said, “give” and he dropped it in my hand. I petted him some more then started to the kennel.

As we came by the retrieving bench Tur Bo jumped onto it. I went to him and put him on whoa, then tossed the dead pigeon to the other end of the bench. I said, “fetch” and he ran to the other end grabbed the pigeon and brought it back to me. I petted him then said, “give” and he dropped it in my hand. I threw the pigeon for him 3 times then set him on the ground. We went on back to the kennel.

Sally

I reloaded the release traps and the bird bag. I only put two pigeons in the bird bag. I put the e-collars on Sally”s neck and flanks, a check cord hooked to her collar with a half hitch around her flanks and led her out with the piggin’ string. I heeled her past a tree then whoaed her. I tied the check cord to a tree then walked in front of her. I took a pigeon from the bird bag and put a rubber band around it’s wing and dropped it in front of her. It hit the ground in just a few feet then tried to fly again and hit the ground. The third time it tried to fly the rubber band came off and the bird flew back to it’s coop. I shot the blank pistol. Sally never moved.

I had one more pigeon in the bird bag so I put it to sleep and put it down in front of her. After about a minute the pigeon woke up and flew away. I shot the blank pistol. Sally never moved. I untied the check cord and led her away with the piggin’ string. I whoaed her then tapped her on the head to release her.

She pointed the first pigeon before I got in the area to see her but the way the check cord was lying she pointed as soon as she hit the scent cone. I tied her check cord to a tree. I walked in front of her kicking the cover. I flushed the pigeon and shot the blank pistol. She didn’t move. I led her away. I whoaed her and tapped her head to release her.

Sally had been farther off the first pigeon than Tur Bo had been but the next one she was closer. The difference is where they hit the scent cone. I tied the check cord to a tree then walked in front of her kicking the cover. I flushed the pigeon and shot the blank pistol. She never moved. I heeled her away with the check cord. I tapped her on the head to release her.

Tur Bo

She was over fifteen yards off the next pigeon when she went on point. It was on the north fence line and we had a good north wind. I took pictures then went in kicking the cover. I flushed the pigeon and shot the blank pistol. I hadn’t tied her check cord this time because she hadn’t been moving. She didn’t this time either. I led her away. I tapped her head to release her.

When we came by the retrieving bench I had her jump onto it. I whoaed her and threw the dead pigeon to the other end of the bench. When I told her to fetch she went to the pigeon and smelled it but didn’t pick it up. She came back to me without the pigeon. I picked the pigeon up, opened her mouth and placed it in her mouth and told her to hold. She held it until I said, “give”. She spit it into my hand. I had her hold and give three times then set her on the ground. I released her to run back to the kennel.



I enjoy working with the dogs on being steady to wing and shot. The good part is I don’t really care if they ever get steady. I think, when a dog breaks on the shot, to retrieve, you lose less birds. Just my opinion. But I need something to write on this blog and this works.

Sally after the pigeon has flown.

Posted in Dog training, Dogs | Comments Off on Dog Training 3/24/18

No Dog Training On Rainy Days

Posted on March 19, 2018 by windypointsj1s@aol.com

The weather and my life hasn’t allowed me to train dogs lately and it is raining this morning. We need the rain but the quail need it even worse than we do. I checked the weather channel and Pratt, Kansas has already got .8 of an inch of rain. Reydon, Oklahoma is only showing .1 of rain. It was still raining in Pratt but I don’t think it was in Reydon.

Sally

Tur Bo pointing a pigeon.

Sally

I have been seeing a few puppies on face book that the owners were saying were steady to wing, shot and fall at 8 months old or at least less than a year old. In my opinion, puppies need to be puppies for a longer time than this.

A lot of years ago I raised a litter of pups and kept a male dog out of this litter. Rusty was a natural retriever and he started pointing wild birds his first year. Back in those days we mainly just worked the dogs when we were hunting. He was a classy dog running and a classy dog on point.

When he was about a year and a half old, before the quail season opened, a farmer friend let me put some call back quail on his farm. I worked Rusty on these birds a couple of times a week and he was doing really well. I heard about a shoot to retrieve trial and decided to run him.

I had run one other shoot to retrieve trial before but that was my total experience. When we took off the other handler went to the right side of the field and Rusty and I went straight ahead. He pointed a quail and I flushed it. It wasn’t a very strong flyer so it dropped right in front of Rusty. He brought it back in a dead run and dropped it in my hand.

We started on and he went a hundred yards and went on point again. This time he moved and the quail flushed before I got to him. He chased it, caught it and brought it to me in a dead run. The judge said if he had of seen the bird running on the ground it would have been a good point.

We went on around the field and the other dog pointed. He was a two or three hundred yards away but Rusty saw him and honored. I held him until the guy flushed his bird and it was retrieved. I don’t remember him finding any other birds but after his run the judge told me that he was the most exciting young dog he had seen in years.

I didn’t place in that trial but it gave me something to shoot for. I decided on the way home that all I had to do was make him steady to wing and shot. Simple enough.

I had never trained a dog to be steady to wing and shot but it couldn’t be that hard. I had a lot more confidence in my training skills than I had any right to have.

Sally on point.

I don’t remember what all I did to that poor dog but there was a lot of screaming involved. Luckily, I didn’t have an e-collar at that time. I had the call back birds and I worked him several times a week. I didn’t really know how to do what I was trying to do but I worked hard.

The only thing I accomplished with my training regimen was a dog that was afraid to make a mistake. When it finally dawned on me that he wasn’t going to be the next Johnny Crocket I let him be a dog. But he was never the dog he could have been. For the rest of his life he was afraid of making a mistake. He was a good dog but never the dog he could have been if I hadn’t put this stress on him.

In my opinion, and it is worth what you are paying, a puppy should be allowed to hunt and make mistakes for at least it’s first season. If you live in an area with lots of birds you might be able to break a pup with lots of exposure before the first season starts.

I put the e-collars on my young dogs and hunt them with my older dogs during the open season but I never, short of a life and death reason, hit the e-collar with the exception of chasing deer. I want any time they chase a deer for it to be a bad experience.

Dolly

Also, dogs see all of this in a different way. My dogs move when the birds do in the field but here on my training grounds they are mostly steady to wing and shot. None of them are steady to fall. Tur Bo, even on the training grounds, will have the bird if it has any trouble getting off the ground. I’m working on him.

The last session, I put a rubber band around the wing on a pigeon and dropped it in front of Tur Bo and Sally both. They were both tied to a tree, with a half hitch around their flanks, with a check cord. Sally didn’t move when the pigeon had trouble flying but Tur Bo hit the end of the check cord hard enough to do a flip. I set him back where he started and threw another pigeon with out the rubber band and he didn’t move.

Sally on point.

But having these dogs steady to wing and shot on these training grounds doesn’t mean they are steady when we are out hunting. I do think that it makes them steadier on their birds to train them to be steady at home. They get used to having birds walk around in front of them.

I worked Sally and Dolly guiding for a group of hunters a couple of weeks ago. Dolly has been used as a guide dog before but this was Sally’s first time. After the first few minutes Sally settled down and did a good job. Several of her points were birds that she saw walking around. Had I not worked her on birds that she could see, here at home, she might have thought she could catch those and flushed them before we could get to her.

Almost, every time I see someone say they have a young dog that is steady to wing and shot, I think about Rusty and what he could have been. If your dog comes steady to wing and shot as a puppy that is one thing but I think putting that much pressure on a young dog takes something out of them. Once it has been taken out you can’t put it back. Just my opinion.

Tur Bo after the check cord flipped him.

Posted in Dogs | Comments Off on No Dog Training On Rainy Days

More Dog Training, 3/14/18

Posted on March 15, 2018 by windypointsj1s@aol.com

I decided to train dogs this morning. The second morning of my last training session Tur Bo took a step after going on point. Although, he pointed just fine after I whoaed him and set him back I knew that if a pigeon hit a limb or fluttered any, on the way to flight, he would charge after them. I needed another way to train.

Sally with a slack check cord tied to a tree.

Sally after the pigeon has flown.

Tur Bo with a slack check cord.

Tur Bo after the check cord flipped him.

I put three pigeons in release traps in the tall weeds on the training grounds and I had another two pigeons in a bird bag. I brought Sally out first with the e-collars around her neck and flanks dragging a check cord. I had put a half hitch around her flanks. I heeled her past some fruit trees, put her on whoa and tied the end of the check cord to a tree with just a little slack. I took a pigeon from the bird bag, put a rubber band around one wing and another rubber band around the feet. I held the pigeon by the feet and let it flutter. I released the bird and it tried to fly but hit the ground in front of Sally. I shot the blank pistol and the pigeon tried to fly again but fluttered back to the ground. Sally was more intense but didn’t move. I caught the pigeon and took the rubber bands off letting it fly away. I shot the blank pistol again.

I still had another pigeon in the bird bag so I took it from the bag, holding it by the feet. After it fluttered for a few seconds I let it fly away. I shot the blank pistol but she never moved. I untied the check cord from the tree, heeled her a few yards away then released her to hunt.

We went on back to the training grounds and when I got close Sally was already on point. I walked in front of her kicking the cover. She still had the check cord around her flanks but since she hadn’t moved on the other pigeons I didn’t tie it to a tree. I flushed the pigeon and shot the blank pistol. She didn’t move. I stroked her sides then heeled her away. I released her to hunt.

She hunted on to the back and slid to a point on the pigeon hidden in the tall weeds. I walked around her kicking the tall cover. I flushed the pigeon and shot the blank pistol. She never moved. I stroked her sides and heeled her away. I released her to hunt.

I let her hunt for a few minutes then we crossed back to my side. She was running down the edge when she hit the scent cone, whirled around and went on point. I kicked the cover, flushed the pigeon and shot the blank pistol. She didn’t move. I stroked her sides then heeled her away. I let her run back to the kennel.

I reloaded the three release traps and put two more pigeons in the bird bag. Tur Bo is really fast. If a pigeon hits a limb or just has some trouble coming out of the release trap he will grab them. I heeled him out of the kennel with the e-collars around his neck and flanks. I, also, had a check cord hooked to his collar and looped around his flanks.

I whoaed him, tied his check cord to a tree with a little slack lying behind him and walked out in front of him. I took a pigeon from the bag, put a rubber band around one wing and held it by the feet. After it fluttered for a few seconds I turned it loose. It flew just a few feet and hit the ground. As soon as it hit the ground it tried to fly away again. Tur Bo just knew he was going to catch him a pigeon. When he hit the end of the check cord he did a flip but was right back on feet but not charging. The check cord was tight but he stood still. I picked him up and set him back.

Sally

I went back in front of him and took the other pigeon from the bird bag holding it by the feet. After it fluttered a few times I released it to fly away and shot the blank pistol. This time he didn’t move. I stroked his sides, untied the check cord then heeled him away. I released him to hunt.

The check cord he was pulling had about 30 feet trailing behind him. He went all the way to the back of the training grounds and went on point. I could tell by the check cord that he was going fast when he hit the scent cone, turned and went on point. He was about 10 yards from the pigeon. I tied the check cord to a tree and walked in front of him kicking the cover. I flushed the pigeon and shot the blank pistol. He didn’t move. I led him away and released him to hunt.

He ran back to the first part where he pointed the pigeon hidden in the tall grass. I tied the check cord to a tree and walked in front of him kicking the tall cover. I flushed the pigeon and shot the blank pistol. He didn’t move. I led him away and released him to hunt.

Tur Bo

He hit the edge on my side and was really going when he went through the scent cone on the third bird. He spun around, took a step and went on point. I went to him and tied the check cord to a tree. I walked in front of him and for some reason he took a step. I went back to him and set him back. I walked back in front of him kicking the cover. I kicked for a longer time because he had moved. He moved again. I held the e-collar button down on his flank e-collar on a light setting and set him back. (2 low) Again I made him stay longer as I kicked the cover. Finally, I flushed the pigeon and shot the blank pistol. He didn’t move. I led him away and released to run back to the kennel.

I enjoy working with the dogs and if they did it perfectly each time there would be no reason to even get them out. Using the rubber band on the pigeons wing moved the training up a notch, I think. On both of these pigeons after the second time they tried to fly the rubber band came off and they flew away. That is perfect for what I’m trying to do. I will use this more in my training.

Sally

Tur Bo

Posted in Dog training, Dogs | Comments Off on More Dog Training, 3/14/18

Training Dogs, 3/8/18 and 3/9/18

Posted on March 10, 2018 by windypointsj1s@aol.com

With all of the bird seasons over I went back to training dogs on Thursday, March 8th. Tur Bo hasn’t been hunted much this season because of his knee cap re-attachment. The longest time he was on the ground, actually hunting, this year was about an hour and a half. I thought he might need to go back through the training, with pigeons.

Tur Bo pointing a pigeon.

Sally pointing a pigeon.

Tur Bo pointing a pigeon.

I put three pigeons, about 8 or 10 yards apart, in release traps, on the training grounds. I had three pigeons in a bird bag that I carried with me. I put the Garmin e-collars on Tur Bo’s neck and flanks, attached a long check cord to his collar with a half hitch around his flanks and led him out of the kennel with a piggin’ string.

As I heeled him across the yard I whoaed him. I walked out front of him, took a pigeon from the bird bag by the feet and let it flap for a few seconds. I placed the pigeon on the ground on it’s back. The pigeon flipped back over and flew away. I shot the blank pistol. Tur Bo didn’t move.

After going back to him and petting him as I told him what a good boy he was I heeled him away. I whoaed him again and went through the same thing again. They stop when I whoa them but they really perk up when I pull the pigeon from the bag, hold it by the feet and let it flap.

After releasing the second pigeon I petted him, heeled him a few yards then released him to hunt. He runs really well, showing no sign of having a problem with his knee. When I got near the pigeons hidden in the tall weeds I saw Tur Bo go on point. He was standing about 15 yards from the pigeon he was smelling.

I tied the check cord, with just a little slack, to a tree. I went back in front of him, took a pigeon from the bag by the feet, let it flap for a few seconds then let it fly away and shot the blank pistol. Tur Bo’s back feet never move but his front feet sometimes do a little dance. I continued to walk back and forth in front of him then flushed a pigeon from a release trap that was the farthest away from him. I shot the blank pistol. He did his dance but didn’t try to chase.

Sally on quail.

I continued to walk back and forth. I flushed another pigeon that was farther away than the one he was pointing. I shot the blank pistol. He didn’t move. I continued to walk back and forth kicking the tall weeds. I, finally, flushed the pigeon he was pointing and shot the blank pistol. He did his dance but didn’t move. I went to him and petted him as I told him what a good dog he was. I untied his check cord and led him away. I released him to run on the way back to the kennels.

I reloaded the release traps and put 3 pigeons in my bird bag. I led Sally out with the e-collars on her neck and flanks. She was also dragging a check cord that was looped around her flanks. Sally has hunted all season and had done real well but I have allowed her to move as soon as the bird flushes. I, also, hunted her a few days ago where we had 75 chukars and 25 pheasants hidden in a large field of the morning and another 75 chukars and 25 pheasants in the afternoon. She got really good about going to where a bird dropped. I thought she would be chasing the pigeons on the training grounds.

I whoaed her as I walked across the yard. I took a pigeon from the bird bag, held it by the feet so it would flap then placed it on the ground on it’s back. The pigeon flipped over and flew away. I shot the blank pistol and Sally never moved. I petted her telling her what a good girl she is then heeled her away.

I heeled her a short distance then whoaed her again. I pulled another pigeon from the bag, let it flap, released it and shot the blank pistol. She never moved. I heeled her away then released her to hunt.

Tur Bo pointing Sally honoring.

When I got close to the pigeons hidden in the tall weeds she was already on point. She had hit the scent cone closer to a pigeon than Tur Bo had. She was about 5 yards from the pigeon. I walked back and forth in front of her after tying her check cord to a tree. I took the last pigeon from the bird bag, let it flap for a few seconds then released it. I shot the blank pistol. She didn’t move. I continued to kick the tall weeds then flushed a pigeon that was farthest away from her. I shot the blank pistol. She never moved.

I continued to walk back and forth. I flushed the other pigeon that was away from her. I shot the blank pistol and she never moved. As I kicked the tall weeds right in front of her I flushed the pigeon she was pointing and shot the blank pistol. She never moved. After untying the check cord I petted her telling her what a good girl she is then released her to run on the way back to the kennel.

The next morning was a little warmer so I got out about 10:00 am to work dogs again. This time I spread three release traps out in the training grounds with a pigeon in each. I still carried 3 pigeons in the bird bag.

This time I brought Sally out first with the e-collars on her neck and flanks. I had hooked the check cord to her collar after running a half hitch around her flanks. I whoaed her a couple of times then released her to hunt. When I got to the first pigeon she was already on point. I walked back and forth in front of her then took a pigeon from the bird bag. I held it by the feet letting it flap for a few seconds then released it. I shot the blank pistol. Sally never moved. I continued to kick the tall weeds then flushed the pigeon from the release trap and shot the blank pistol. She never moved.

Luke

I petted her then led her away. I released her to hunt. She went on the wrong side of the middle bird but pointed the pigeon at the very back. I walked in front of her kicking the cover. I took a pigeon from the bag, let it flap then released it. I shot the blank pistol. She never moved. I continued to kick the cover and flushed the pigeon in the release trap. I shot the blank pistol and she never moved. After petting her I led her away.

I released her to hunt. She came close to the middle bird and even almost circled it before finally hitting the scent cone. Working dogs on this property shows me how easy it is for dogs to completely miss birds. On this ground the wind swirls a lot. I’ve seen one dog point all of it’s birds on the east side and the very next dog be either real close or far away but be on the other side. If the dog is on the wrong side of the birds they will totally miss them.

She was buried in the cover when I released the pigeon from the bird bag and shot the blank pistol. She never moved. I continued to kick the cover then released the bird from the release trap and shot the blank pistol. She never moved. I released her to hunt on the way back to the kennel.

I brought Tur Bo out next with the e-collars on his neck and flanks pulling a check cord hooked to his collar with a half hitch around his flanks. I whoaed him a couple of times in the yard then released him to hunt. When I got to the training grounds he had gone on by the first two birds and was on point at the very back of the training grounds. I was about a hundred yards from him when I saw him and as I watched he took a step. I flushed the pigeon and yelled, “whoa”. He stopped and looked kind of sheepish, like you saw me. I went to him, picked him up and set him back. I kicked in front of him then led him away. I released him to hunt.

He hit the scent cone on the middle bird and locked up. I walked in front of him kicking the tall weeds. I took a pigeon from the bird bag, let it flap for a few seconds then let it fly away as I shot the blank pistol. He did his dance but didn’t move. I continued to kick the cover then took another bird from the bird bag, let it flap for a few seconds then released it. He didn’t move. I continued to kick the cover then flushed the pigeon in the release trap. He never moved even when I shot the blank pistol. I led him away.

Luke pointing a covey of quail.

I released him to hunt. He pointed the first bird on the training grounds. I had not tied the check cord on the other birds but I did this time. I walked in front of him kicking the cover. I took a pigeon from the bird bag, let it flap then released it. I shot the blank pistol and he didn’t move. I continued to kick the cover then flushed the bird from the release trap. I shot the blank pistol. He did his little dance but didn’t try to chase. His check cord still had a little slack just as it did when I tied it. I petted him then led him away. I released him to hunt on the way back to the kennel.

Both of these dogs are pretty well broke steady to wing and shot on these training grounds, on pigeons. Both of them will move as soon as a quail flushes when I’m hunting. They know this is a game and they know how to play it. They don’t even look the same on point on the pigeons as they do on quail. They both are rigid on pigeons but they are more so on quail. They, also, have a curl in their tail on pigeons but it is straighter on quail.

Well, the dogs know it’s a game and I know it’s a game but it’s still fun to go in your back yard and get a half dozen points in just an hour or so. The dogs enjoy it and so do I.

Sally

Tur Bo

Sally

Posted in Dog training, Dogs | Comments Off on Training Dogs, 3/8/18 and 3/9/18